Russell:  Interesting. So, your view is this freight train that's coming. What you're trying to offer at Sacred Mysteries is a philosophical and practical approach to both internal spiritual preparation, as well as a physical practical preparation.

Jay:  That's right. You have to ask yourself. Do you really want to live in a world where the guy with the most guns wins? And I think most of us will say, "No. We don't want to live in that world". Well, if we don't do the things that we're trying to do at Sacred Mysteries, we could very likely end up that way. There's a lot of crazy people stacking a lot of guns in their garages and their basements right now, and that's not going to save us. So, my answer is to create communities that are examples, prime examples, so that other communities and other people can see how it works in a good way ‑ then they will follow suit and that, to me, is the only way we're going to get out of this crisis.

Russell:  Absolutely. Fascinating. We're about the bottom of the hour. I think we've covered most of the main things. Sacred Mysteries offer specials on amazing videos that you've been producing all these years since you and I have left the company we were working for, where a lot of those ideas were percolating.

Jay:  Yes.

Russell:  One thing I want to bring to everyone's attention that's listening to this that excites me the most is your new release coming up. The new video on near death and dying. What's the name of it?

Jay:  Infinity ‑ The Ultimate Trip.

Russell:  Exactly.

Jay:  What it is I wanted it... it's really a gift that I wanted to give because I don't want people to be afraid and all fear comes from basically is the fear of death. This is what male initiation alleviates, is the fear of death. Which of course, we can't do and we do not do in this society. So, what I tried to do is construct the film as toward an initiation, so that you could see what it's like to die, talk to people who have already died and come back, and realize there's nothing to be afraid of.

When you know there's nothing to be afraid of, no one can control you. Once we get past the fear of death, governments will collapse, corporate worlds will collapse, the whole edifice of the nightmare of the Iron Age will disappear. So, that was the real goal of making the film.

Russell:  I find that interesting because the conversation you and I had the other day about the major motion picture of 2012 coming up and these other things is created by the same people that created 'Invasion' and all those other big films. 'Independence Day'.

Jay:  Independence Day.

Russell:  Yeah, the focus still seems to be on the mass destruction in a phantasmagoric destruction of the planet and it's funny because when we were talking, you were talking about the positioning. Nobody's really positioning the spiritual requirements and need of how people need to face death. And that's what excites me the most about this new release coming out.

Jay:  Yeah, me too. Me too. That's exactly right, and we're going to release the film here soon and then we're going to release the interviews in their entirety on a free disc set. So, you can really get into the heads of people of like Robert Thurman, Neale Donald Walsch, and Stan Grof . There will be no doubt.

We showed the movie to Sharon's 83 year old mother the other day. She was the oldest person to see the movie, of course she's facing her own death at that age soon. She just loved the film. I consider that an amazing victory to get a person from my parent's generation to consider what that generation probably considered to be some pretty wacky ideas and to not think that they were wacky. To think that they were hopeful. She said the movie gave her a lot of hope, and that was the entire purpose.

Russell:  Yes, that is. For our listeners, the best way to purchase the DVD's is obviously at sacredmysteries.com and I'm going to be recommending some of the other videos over other interviews. I'm going to have periodic interviews with Jay. Jay's going to be also covering interviews with his associates in other topics and subject matters that are relevant to what we're doing. I'm specifically interested in you guys listening to this.

We're really scratching the surface. Thanks Jay.

Jay:  Thanks a lot Russell.

Jay:  And it is appearing, right now. That's one of the things we're trying to do at Sacred Mysteries is to help manifest this.

It took me 40 years to get where you already were, and if we could do that with the next generation, they could be 12 or 14 years old and be as far as I am now in my mid‑50's. So this is what we're trying to do, we're trying to jump start the next generation. That's really my goal, right now.

Russell:  And that's mine as well. I'm going to read a quote to you because it segues into the next question I have for you. This is a quote from a NASA jet propulsion engineer, and this was done last year, so time has moved on. He basically said that when it comes to the changes that they're watching coming down when it comes to weather, and now talking to even Hopi elders and the rest, that I wouldn't run for the hills, but it might be time to start walking. Do you agree?

What do I do? Square one, I'm an ordinary citizen sitting out there listening to Coast to Coast, or Jay Weidner, or Sharron Rose and I'm sitting there and I know something is up, because everybody is talking about it, everywhere I go, even not the new age sector. What's going on? What do I do, step one?

Jay:  It's actually ‑a two part process. You have to work on the physical, and you have to work on the spiritual. So let's start with the physical, since that's less esoteric.

What do you have to do on the physical level? What you have to do on the physical level is you have top take care of yourself first, you have to take care of you family second, your have to take care of your friends third, and you have to take care of your community fourth. The reason you're first is because if you don't take care of yourself, none of the rest is going to happen.

So you need to take care of things, you need to take care of business. You need to be find community, you need to begin learning permaculture. You need to learn. You need to find out where your local sources of fresh water are. You need to learn how to grow food. You need to learn how to protect yourself. You need to buy the materials necessary to educate the future. That's said, so what's the second part?

The second part is the spiritual part. You need to love each other. You need to meditate. You need a discipline. You need to do yoga every day, or tai chi, or just meditate, sit by a tree, something. You need to calm down. That's the first thing you need to do, is to calm down. Without calming down, you're not going to be thinking clearly when the smelly brown stuff hits the spinning silver receptacle.

So this is what we're going up against and this is going to happen really, really fast. I think it's going to be the most blinding shift in the history of the world. As you are well aware of Cliff High and his alta reports, his June altar report came out. Most people that know me know that I'm a huge fan of Cliff High, and every time I'm on the radio or I give a lecture, I always sing his praises because he is a bloody genius.

Cliff High has looked down the road, and you guys need to look at halfpasthuman.com so you can understand. I don't want to get into the vagaries of how Cliff, we can later, but how Cliff discovers this stuff, but it's an ingenious method. Cliff called 911 before it happened, he called Katrina before it happened, he called the stock market crash before it happened, he called what happened in the Gaza strip in Israel before it happened, and he's saying that everything is about to collapse, and that out of this, a new world is going to happen by 2012. In less than three years this is going to happen. What's he saying is going to happen? Possibly a complete return to the earth… a complete return to community, the rebirth of the goddess.

This is very heady, exciting stuff, and I'm just lucky I'm here to witness it, and do my little bit to try to turn it in this direction. And so this is another reason why we're starting the School of the Ancient Mysteries, so that we are in our communities. We can stay linked via the Internet, hopefully it'll still be up. And we can reveal the ancient secrets to the world, while we're living in community, while we're living in ceremony, while we're living in ritual, while we're living in love.

Russell:  Now let me ask you, because I know that our listeners are probably, you slid over something that I just want to make sure that there's no kind of alchemical clue in there, something about the brown stuff hitting the what?

Jay:  The spinning receptacle.

Russell:  Explain. You mean like a toilet?

Jay:  Yeah, the poop you know?

Russell:  So you're talking about?

Jay:  I'm talking about when the shit hits the fan, baby. I'm talking about the end of this age.

Russell:  So you're talking about the test for symmetry of the whole...

Jay:  That's right, that's exactly right. And what's kind of great about what's about to happen, it sounds a little bit callous, and I'm not callous because I'm saying all this publicly because I want everyone to be saved, but not everyone is going to be saved. So you have to look and you have to say OK "Well who is going to be saved, and who isn't?" And here's the best part of this equation, the people that are going to be saved are those that are saving themselves.

Russell:  Yes.

Jay:  And those that aren't being saved are those that aren't saving themselves. And that means that the most aware people are going to be saved, and awareness is just another word for conscious. So the most conscious people are going to be saved. That means, at the end of this whole thing, after the brown stuff has already hit the spinning receptacle, this world is going to be a lot more conscious than it is now. And that's a really, really good thing.

Russell:  Also, you mentioned something just now about the Internet ‑ "hopefully it will be up." Let's take a look at that, because you and I have had conversations about that. We're making the last ditch effort with Sacred Mysteries to make maximum use, to optimize the use, of this amazing communication mechanism, while it's still available. What are your views on the Internet, even within the power hierarchy of the world governments and the techno‑infrastructure that, as you know, all of my businesses are engaged in, what do you think will happen to the Internet as an extension of the goddess or of communication, if anything?

Jay:  I think actually, if I was Obama, or I was running the place, I wouldn't be doing anything that they're doing. What I would be doing, is I would be establishing a worldwide satellite Internet service, and then forcing computer manufacturers, and they're probably going to do this anyway, to make computers that can be run on low voltage, so that you can run your computer on solar power, and you can be on the Internet via satellite via solar power. To me, this is the only thing a world government should be doing. Everything else should be done locally.

Russell:  So you mean like...

Jay:  The only thing that should be done globally, is the Internet.

Russell:  So, you're saying the units that they gave Jim, or whatever his name was, on Jericho ‑ the CIA agent where he snaps open the suitcase, snaps on a solar panel, and turns on his computer and links the satellite?

Jay:  Yeah and everyone should have this ability. The world government should be giving away the computers for free, giving away all of this for free so that when the collapse comes, we're all still connected. We'll be able to call each other. We'll be able to see each other. We'll be able to communicate. Movies can be downloaded. Music can be downloaded. We don't have to really give up any of our communication devices if we get ahead of this freight train. That's really my main concern right now.

I'm a hopeful person, but I see what's going on and the laws that are being passed right now in Washington. It looks to me like they're almost trying to create the collapse. They're doing everything that you would want to do if you wanted to have a very, very serious collapse and I don't want a serious collapse. But, if it's going to come, let's at least be hooked up to the Internet so we're not isolated communities with no ability to communicate with each other. So, my main concern is I'm naturally a libertarian. So, I believe that human beings actually left to their own devices do make the right decisions most of the time. I'm a firm believer in the ability of human beings to be able to be conscious of what they're doing.

So, I really think we need a universal Internet that's available to everybody, everywhere on the Earth. From Eskimos, to people in the mid‑west, to people in Russia, to people at the tip of South America. Solar‑powered, and we need to get these satellites up and we need to get this now before it's too late.

Russell:  And so am I. I'm trying to drop the hints here about the Gnostic revival that seems to be happening on its own with or without our help.

Jay:  It is. That is one of the things about the quality of time. The agnostics believed basically that this was a false world and that reality was contrived by alien forces. We fell, "hook, line and sinker" for their contrived reality. We started believing that the virtual corporate world of the 20th century was actually a real world. But it wasn't. It was completely contrived by strange alien forces that do not have our best interests at hand.

Right now that world is crumbling. Hallelujah. We're moving towards the real world. The real world on the surface could sound a bit harsh. It is a world where a lot of our time will be spent growing food, for instance. The corporate farming ‑ which has nearly destroyed the planet ‑ we hope, will completely disappear. The energy that we have been using ... the energy supplies are drying up and we will be on a huge energy diet.

You can look at that and say, "Oh, how horrible. What a terrible thing." I say, "Let's Aikido the moment!" In Aikido you use the weight of your opponent against them. I say, "Let's Aikido the moment!" Let's think about this: is this really a bad thing? My answer is, "No... This is the best thing that has happened in 6000 years." We should be so happy that the old world of contrived reality, oppression and slavery, the destruction of the environment, the wholesale genocide of whole races is going away.

Yes, life is going to get tougher on the outside, but on the inside we are going to find community. We are going to be with our families and our loved ones. We are not going to be moving around the community, splitting up communities and families like we did in the corporate and industrial world. It is going to be a lot better place and the Earth will come back, I know it.

Russell:  Wow, I feel like John Stewart in the "All Stop Moment", where you just go "Wow!"

Russell:  That is seriously cool stuff. I want to bring up something about your book and talk about the Cross of Hendaye. It has been how many years since you completed the manuscript?

Jay:  10 years, actually. 10 years ago.

Russell:  Where do you stand now? Has anything changed in your philosophy since you wrote that book? In your belief structure, are there things you would say and do differently in that book because you have grown?

Jay:  Yes for sure. One thing I have done in the last few years is getting into the ancient Vedic and Puranas text in India. I wish I got into that before, more completely, before I wrote the book. I realize now, whoever constructed the Cross of Hendaye, knew the secrets of the Vedic text, knew the secrets of the ancient Puranas text and they knew the secrets of the Mahabharata. They were trying to encode it into the Cross of Hendaye.

At the very end of the Puranas text, Lord Vishnus describe the events that will occur at the end of this age. I should say not the end of this age, but at the end of the Kulpa, which is the grand age, the age of all ages. It is exactly the same description that is on the Cross of Hendaye. I realize now, which I didn't really realize then, that alchemy is the science of the ancients. It's the science of ancient India, of the Ayurvedic philosophies, of China, of Greece, of Egypt, of Persia, of even the indigenous traditions.

When we were in Peru in 2007, in ceremony with the Qero Shamans, they told me that there were people up high in the Andes, up around 18, 000 feet who have transmuted into light, into the rainbow body. This is a tradition that goes all the way back to humanity. Our real purpose in life is to transmute the human body into light. One of the things that we need to do as we reach the end of this age, in a way to construct the next human. I know that sounds crazy, but it is not so crazy.

Evolution may be driven by mutation, genetic derivation and survival of the fittest; there is no doubt that these things are right. The ability to modify your surroundings and all this: this is all true. But also there is another component that evolutionary biologists don't understand: we have a choice to evolve. The best example is the first horses, 80, 000 years ago, were about the size of small dogs. They had short legs. As time has gone on, the horse has grown bigger, taller, and the legs have extended and gotten stronger.

The scientists say, "You know, what the horse did was it evolved magically to have these long legs to escape predators: carnivores, mountain lions and wolves and all that." But the Puranas text tells us that animals have a choice. As the small horses were beginning to go extinct and the pressures of extinction began sitting on their shoulders, they then became consciously aware of why they were becoming extinct. In that moment, they could reconstruct the horse of the future. They realized they had to get away from their predators, so they collectively, consciously decided to grow longer legs.

Here we are, at the end of this age, and we need to reconstruct the human being: to fit better in our environment. Not the human being that destroys the environment, over procreates, over consumes, overweight ... I'm using "over" a lot. Doing these things in a very unhealthy way, we need to construct the human being of the future, which is us. We are the people that we have been waiting for. The Inca, the alchemists, the Qero , the Mayans, the Hindu and the indigenous traditions all teach that the next state is homo‑luminous.

I really believe that is where we are headed. We are going to be lighter, more effervescent, diaphanous, creatures closer to the above than to the below and less material, more euphoric. You can see this happening: it is what the Internet and sudden Agnostic revival is about. It is us becoming translucent, us becoming able to cross great distances without leaving your home, able to go to stars and other planets without leaving your home through ceremony, ritual, a sense of the divine, which is really our destiny and place in our world. We were like this once, but we have lost tract.

We have become more concertized, more materialized. That is why we are getting heavier. That is why there are so many obese people, because as we move to the end of this age, we are getting heavier.

It is like Frodo and the ring, as he approaches Mount Doom, the ring gets heavier and heavier: that is what happening to us. As we pass the gate of time, we will become light, we will become lighter, just as Frodo became lighter after the volcano consumed the right. Here we are, at this incredible crux, where we are all Frodos. Selfishly shaking the machines and rings that have enslaved us for so long.

Russell:  When I think of Hollywood emulations of what you describe, there is Wall‑E, where you have the flubbery people in outer space going back and forth on the ship and they are 400 pounds.

Jay:  I love that movie. Best movie of the year.

Russell:  Then you have the knowing, the humans of the future come back to collect on the indigo generation or the translucent.

Jay:  That movie is going to be released on July 7th and I can't wait. I will be first in line to buy my Blueray edition of "Knowing" because I think "Knowing" is the best movie of this year. I can't say enough good things about the movie. Alex Proyas, who directed it, also directed my other favorite films, which I consider the greatest Agnostic movie of all time: Dark City. He really has his finger on the pulse of what is going on here.

My own life story, parallels Nicholas Cages' story so much; I'm wondering if Alex didn't hear me on "Coast to Coast" because I'm not an astrophysicist as Nicholas is in the movie, but I was an atheist. I didn't believe in anything except science, for most of my life.

When I discovered the Cross of Hendaye .... Just as Nicholas Cage discovered the code on the paper that the psychic girl had left behind, the Cross of Hendaye was my psychic code. I saw the pattern. I realized that this pattern was impossible, unless this world was far different than what I thought it was. I shed the scientific paradigm, just as Nicholas Cage does in that movie.

I moved closer to the divine, just as he does. This is where we are all headed. The knowledge of the end of time, the knowledge of the end of this age, is creating a deal of stress and pressure on our race. In that stressful pressure filled moment, we're going to see the answers. Necessity is the mother of invention. As long as when you need it, will it appear?

Russell:  Yes.

Russell Wright:  Hi Folks, this is Russell Wright . Jay Weidner is with us today. Jay is part of the company Sacred Mysteries Productions and has made some great films like 2012 The Odyssey and Timewave 2013 and his new hit, the award winning documentary Infinity: The Ultimate Trip., thank you so much for being on the line with us today.

Jay Weidner:  It's great to be here.

Russell:  Now, you and I have had tons of conversations through the years, A lot of the behind closed doors about all different topics. You have been a wealth of information for me on all kinds of things including Alchemy. Alchemy is just one of the many areas that when studying personally with you, I learned a ton about ... it really opened my eyes in my early 20's. We've known each other for over 10 years. Amazing huh?

Jay:  Ah yes. 12, 13 years I've known you.

Russell:  After meeting you and getting educated on some of these things my life opened up into all kinds of possibilities and insights. That is some of the stuff I want to talk about today. I want to give you interview style for our members, what is going on the world right now?

Jay:  Well it is literally the end of the age. The Ancient, the Hindu's the Mayans the Alchemist, the Egyptians, the Native and Indigenous traditions, they all knew that time was actually cyclical. It is only in recent modern history in the West, that we come to believe that time is linear. Time is not linear. We can use linear time to our advantage to say: running businesses, making sure the planes take off on time or meeting someone for dinner at a restaurant at the same time.

Linear time is very useful, but it is only a tool, it is not really real. There is no such thing as linear time. Everything is literally happening at once. But there is a quality to time. That quality changes just like how six in the morning is different than noon and noon is different than midnight. Spring is different from summer or fall is different from winter. There are seasons of time and we are at the very end of a season of time. The quality is changing. The quality of time is evolving and changing. It is now a little past midnight; we are moving into a new day.

This new day is going to have a completely different set of rules, a completely different set of being and we are headed towards this thing like a proverbial freight train coming out of the tunnel. And we're not really ready. That is my main concern. I am practically old enough to retire, but I realize how important it is to convey this information, from the Ancients, about this time period. That is one of the reasons why all of us have set the School up together.

We want to make sure that the knowledge that we were able to pick up during the last age is conveyed and pushed into the next age, to help the next age realize what it's purpose it, what it's doing and to alleviate the mass confusion that is going to occur, that is already occurring as we move from one age to another. It is an incredibly important time.

Russell:  Exactly. There are some questions that I want to jump right into that I want to save for the members only because they are kind of heavy. Is the light at the end of the tunnel and freight train, or is it God?

Jay:  It's both.

[laughter]

Jay:  You have to realize that the destruction of this age is inevitable. The freight train is going to destroy this age, but at the very front of the freight train is a very bright light. For those who know what to do, they know that the freight train is bringing the light. Imagine you are in a tunnel and a freight train is coming at you. You somehow are able to skirt and hang close to the wall of the tunnel and the freight train goes by you.

So then, what is there? What is there is of course the bright sun shining through the tunnel. The smart people are going to know how to avoid the freight train. The dumb people are going to get run over. I'm just barely trying to help the smart people avoid collisions. Russell:  Got it. We also talked about ... you realize how Gnostic that sounds right? What you just describe?

Jay:  I do because I'm a Gnostic.

Jay Weidner:   When you all get a chance, check out www.sacredmysteries.com for great films and videos including the two films that helped start the 2012 movement: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013.

We're talking to Timothy Beckley. Hey, Timothy, remember that movie, you remember another movie with Nancy Reagan, where God spoke to the people of the Earth through the radio? The Next Voice You Hear.

Timothy:  Yeah, I did. Is that an old Twilight Zone? I mean, I think it's...

Jay:  No, there's a movie; I only saw it once. It came out in the '50s which starred Nancy Davis, and it was one of the creepiest films I've ever seen. It was a very Christian film, and it was about how God spoke through the radio and told earth that they'd better straighten up or he was going to destroy us.

Timothy:  I don't remember that one, no.

Jay:  It was strange.

Timothy:  Hey, Jay, let me finish my synchronicity story here, OK?

Jay:  Please.

Timothy:  So, I'm on the Long John Show and I'm talking about these UFO experiences that people have had in New York and so forth. So, the next day I get a phone call at my office. There's a gal who does a column for a New York magazine. It's called Best Bets. It's on the last page, and basically it's a list of what's happening in New York, a list. I don't know how to explain it, a list, like top 10 things to do, anyway. She heard this, and she wanted a list of the top best 10 UFO sightings in New York.

So, I gave her the phone numbers of a few people to call or names that I remember about people that have had experiences. And then, at the end of the conversation, I guess, maybe, we talked for about half an hour or so, I say, "Terry ‑ her name is Terry Clifford.

I said, "Terry, let me send you some more material, a little bit about my bio" and so forth. I said, "Well, where should I send it?" And she said, "Well, send it to apartment blah‑blah‑blah, 6R, 11 East 96th Street in Manhattan?"

I said, "What address?" "11 East 96th Street." It's not the right address, but 11 East 96th Street, New York, New York. I said, "Well, are you in the same building I am?" It turned out she lived two floors above me, but that's not quite the end of the story.

Now, Terry and I ‑ I can't say we became the best of friends, but it's a very small building. We're talking about six apartments or eight apartments in the building. So, we'd see each other in the hallway or in the elevator. We' always had a laugh for years, "Hey, hey, there you are in the same building, synchronicity coincidence, blah, blah, blah."

She was into metaphysical subjects. In fact, she wrote the first book on the Dali Lama. She traveled with the Dali Lama throughout India wherever during one of the summers in the mid or late 1960s, right? In fact, her book was published by Samuel Weiser, Samuel Weiser being probably the first granddaddy of all the New Age publishers.

And so, like I said, we met every once in a while in the elevator, a little rickety elevator ride down. I'd meet her. I'd get on the fourth floor. She'd be on the sixth. We'd go down, and she passed away a few years after I had the... She had a brain tumor. Of course, I've told this story quite a few times.

Last year I'm in a rather ‑ let's put it. Let's tell it like it is, a rather sleazy bar in Greenwich Village, Manhattan. I'm sitting there having a drink with a lady friend of mine at the end of the bar and just kibitzing and getting a little bit more inebriated as the night goes on. But I'm over 21 so that's legal, and there's a fellow...

Now, like I said, this is Greenwich Village so it's usually a very casual place. People wear jeans. It's a college crowd because it's near NYU, New York University.

Well, there's a fellow standing next to us, a little bit older than the rest of the crowd, and doesn't quite seem to fit in. But there he is and he seems to be having a good time. He offered to buy me and my friend a drink.

So, I said, "It looks like you're doing a little bit of celebrating. What are you celebrating?" And he said, "Oh, I just got a..." and he named a very hefty advance from a major publisher. And I said, "Gee that's great! I'm a publisher myself," but my advances are far lower than the $200, 000 he had gotten.

So I asked him what was the subject, and it was a self‑help book. In fact, I remember his name was Phil‑I thought of Dr. Phil from TV‑it wasn't him, but it was the same kind of self‑help material. So I got to talking, and telling him this is what I publish too, and somehow we got to talking about this incident with this gal that lived two floors above me.

Well, he just turned ashen white. He said, "That lady, Terry, was the love of my life. I was with her on that trip that she made with the Dalai Lama, and if you turn to the acknowledgements in her book, you'll find that I'm mentioned there."

So I said, "You know, I think maybe if there is such a thing as communication from the other side, maybe she's saying hello to you, because I don't think it's a message for me, but there certainly is some relevance in my bringing up this topic."

And I said "What are you doing? Are you going to write anything more about this?" And he said "No, but I'm on my way to England to deliver a talk." It's something like a meeting or a conference for psychiatrists or psychologists.

And I said, "Do me a favor. They could be a skeptical [?] life. Would you tell that story that I just told you to at least three of them, and see if it has any impact on their careers or on their life."

So I just went away thinking it must have been a message for him. It was like I was transmitting this to tell him that she was still thinking of him, and thanks for mentioning her in his book.

Jay:  Yeah, I'll tell you ‑ My new movie "Infinity" is about life after death, and we interviewed quite a few people, and I'll tell you that... I don't know, there's certainly something there, there's no doubt. There are too many similar stories, if you know what I mean.

Timothy:  Yes.

Jay:  Synchronicities are strange. We live in a world where conspiracies are frequently called coincidences, and I think it was William Irwin Thompson who once said that he thought conspiracy theorists were beginning Buddhists, because they could see the underlying connection between everything. And I really wonder if possibly there is some connection between all of this and some kind of matrix of reality that binds everything together, but we can't really see the connections, they're like invisible.

Timothy:  I feel the same way. There's a continuity to a life, I think, but in what sense? Charles Fort, who of course was one of the big collectors of oddities strange obkects, disappearances, the Bermuda Triangle and so forth and so on... He always felt that we were like a giant chess game, and there were people that were manipulating the chess pieces for good or for bad, and I guess that's what I figured too, but I don't know.

This is like John Keels' thinking on the subject as well. Do they have the same thinking patterns as we do?

We think of aliens as coming here from other planets, and we assume that they must think exactly. Why don't they make open contact? Why don't they land on the White House lawn? Well, maybe, they're not even thinking of that.

Jay:  No, I don't think they are.

Timothy:  You know, I mean, there's an entirely different life pattern or thought processes that goes throughout the universe, and just because the human race thinks in one mode doesn't everybody... It's like radio bands, right? I mean, the CB bands. You've got all these different bands, and people are operating on different levels. I think that's the way it is in the universe.

These other beings, often dimensionals, time travelers or whatever they might be, are not necessarily thinking the same things that we are or have the same ideas in mind. They're going about their own agenda, and I'm not sure if I landed here from some other planet I would want anybody to know that I was here either.

Jay:  I wouldn't either, actually.

Timothy:  No, I don't think that I want people to know that I'm here as it is [laughs] .

Jay:  Yeah, exactly. Any thinking person has to be paranoid at this stage. I agree with your point of view and Keels' point of view. I think that's actually the best explanation for what's happening here. There is a game, and we don't even know that we're in the game, at least, most of us don't. What we do is a synchronicity...

Timothy:  Maybe, you and I know that we're in the game, but we don't know what the rules are.

Jay:  Well, that's true. It's like playing chess with Bobby Fischer and you're blindfolded.

Timothy:  Yeah.

Jay:  I don't know. It's so impossible to get people who have not seen this to see it.

Timothy:  That's right.

Jay:  It's impossible. It is unbelievable.

Timothy:  Well, you know something though, it's not, actually, everybody has to come along that path on their own, and I'd be the last person to try to shove any of this down anybody's throat. In fact, I've been involved in making movies. I've been in and out of promoting musical bands. I've done a lot of different things.

And people always say, "Oh, you don't want to tell anybody that you're into UFOs or anything. They'll think you're weird." I don't know, some people think I'm weird and other people, they like to hear what the latest scoop is even if they don't necessarily believe it.

Well, you don't force it down people's throat. If they're interested, they're interested. If they're not, let's go have a beer and watch the baseball game.

Jay:  I agree with you. When I first got into this business, if that's what you call it, I had a show on Public Radio, a very liberal crowd listening, and they would invite me over to their parties sometimes. This was in Seattle, and I'd get disinvited from their parties because I'd start talking about this kind of stuff and scare the living daylights out of everyone.

Timothy:  Now, you'd be on the A list.

Jay:  Well, I am. That's what I was just going to say. Now, I'm getting invited to parties, and they're disappointed if I don't tell them.

Timothy:  There you go, right? Sometimes, you just don't even want to, like I've said this 15 times before.

Jay:  Exactly. Well, we have been talking to Timothy Beckley. I really appreciate it. You can find his site at ConspiracyJournal.com and thanks, Tim. It was really enjoyable.

Timothy:  You're welcome, and if there are any horror film fans out there, go to MrCreepo.com, [spells] [laughs] .

Jay:  There you go.

Timothy:  Have fun. Get educated and learn because that's what life is all about.

Jay Weidner:   I'm Jay Weidner reminding you of our great website www.sacredmysteries.com where you can always find the best in spiritual videos and films. Our new film Sophia Returning: The Path to Planetary Tantra with Gnostic scholar John Lash is out.

We're talking to Timothy Beckley, writer of some 30 books. You can go to his website conspiracyjournal.com‑very interesting site. Timothy, I wrote a book about this mysterious cross in the South of France, and I spent from 1986 to 1999 working on this project, and finally published in 1999 the first of two books.

One of the things that happened to me during this research was a really strange amount of synchronicities, sometimes of an unbelievable nature, like a book that I really needed appearing just sitting on an airport seat while I was at the airport. A book that actually changed the research completely.

So I'm wondering, have you had any of this kind of thing happen to you?

Timothy:  I have had so many. First of all, I want to say your book "The Mysteries of the Great Cross of Hendaye" is just a fabulous read.

Jay:  Well, thank you.

Timothy:  I'm selling copies I bought from your publisher. I think I still have a few left here, and of course your DVD on the same subject is just absolutely marvelous. It affected me. I've always been interested in alchemy, but too stupid to study it! [laughs] It's an absolutely fascinating read, and it's marvelous how you managed to fit all those pieces together. Someone needs to do a Hollywood movie on that.

Jay:  They should!

Timothy:  An actual fabulous book. Yes, synchronicities have had...I've had a lot of them, and I don't know why. People say, "Well, it shows that you're in tune with the universe." Well, some days I feel like I'm in tune with the universe... on other days, I don't feel like I have anything in common with it at all. I could tell you a couple little instances right here that really are just beyond... even synchronicity or coincidences have to have their limits.

Maybe 20 years or so ago... 25, maybe even 30. Whatever it was, I was invited to speak to a conference of people in San Francisco. It was the National UFO Congress, I think it was. They had a nice group, I think 300‑400 people showed up.

I gave my talk, and the promoter‑his name was Dale Rettig, I remember‑he had been another teenage researcher. We all started out with a UFO groups that were organized by teenagers back in the 60's. Now we're a bunch of old men, but in those days we were in our late teens or early twenties, and I was no exception.

Anyway, I had given this talk and it was on a Saturday night, and I was leaving the next day on Sunday, but we had some time to kill because the flight back east was maybe 3:00 or 4:00 in the afternoon.

So we decided, let's go out for brunch. Now, I had never been to San Francisco before that, I hadn't seen the cable cars, and the whole thing, and I guess it was something we wanted to do; we had some time to kill.

So we decided to go have a brunch, and we picked the place at random. I certainly had not been there before, and neither had the promoter, his wife, or the three or four people that were with us.

So we went into this nice restaurant/bar, and had the usual brunch, and a Bloody Mary to start out with, and so on, and to keep the conversation going, I'm telling the promoters, "I wish I had a little more foresight and I had thought to call some of the people that I know who had moved out here from New York," because I just hadn't communicated with them in a while.

Now, I had one of the first metaphysical cult groups in New York. We had the New York School of Cult Arts and Sciences down on 14th Street, and we had meetings and psychic readers, and sold metaphysical books, and in those days ‑ this would have been the late 1960's ‑

I don't think there was anybody else really doing that. It was just starting‑the whole New Age thing was just starting...

Anyway, one of the fellows who had lectured for me and had given a couple of classes was a psychic by the name of Alan Vaughan. Now, Alan Vaughan was a very colorful person. Not only was he a psychic, but he had a great sense of humor, and we always liked each other.

We got along well and I thought he always did a very good job of getting his message and his information across to people. He was one of the boys, so to speak, very down to earth. He never let this go to his head or anything like that.

Anyway, he had moved from New York to San Francisco to become editor of a magazine called Psychic. It was a very glossy magazine and very prestigious magazine devoted to parapsychology and the paranormal that was published from the mid‑sixties; I think maybe to the early nineteen seventies.

For a magazine, it had a long run, because magazines, as a rule, don't last very long, except for faith [?] , which there's nothing else like that. Most magazines on the paranormal and when the publisher realized they're not going to make any money and when they lose interest, then decide they're going to go on to something else.

Anyway, so Alan Vaughn was one of these fellows that I should have called, but of course I didn't. Anyway, he was sitting there drinking a Bloody Mary and having lunch... brunch and in walks this fellow with a dog on a leash and I look at him at I'm like, "Gee, that looks a lot like Alan Vaughn."

Now here's a city, how many people live in San Francisco? A couple million?

Jay:  One point eight million.

Timothy:  Close, OK, close enough. Right?

Jay:  Yeah.

Timothy:  Anyway, I said to myself: Well, this can't be Alan Vaughn. Why would he come in five minutes after I just talked about him?" That's impossible, right? OK, so I called the fellow over, he looks at me and I look at him, I said, "Aren't you Alan Vaughn?" and he says, "Yes, I'm Alan Vaughn." I said, "Well, what are you doing here?" I tell him I'd given a lecture down in blah, blah, blah. He said, "Well I don't know, I was just out walking my dog and I just thought I wanted to come in and have a beer."

OK, so he sat down of course, I introduced him to my friends. And I said, "Well this is quite a coincidence, isn't it Alan?" And he said, "Yeah, but you know I've been working on a book on synchronicity."

And he said, "I guess I'm going to use this in the book, I think it's case number 17, in his little paper back book, which is out of print, but you can find it once and a while on synchronicity and coincidence. Now what are the chances, one point eight million, I think you can even double that, I mean, it's...

Jay:  Oh, God.

Timothy:  It's totally unlikely. Right, I mean it's...

Jay:  Completely.

Timothy:  It doesn't happen. All right here's another one. This one is a little bit funnier. I was on the "Long John Show" one night. And I was talking about UFOs and ghost stories in the New York area. Right, for some reason that came up: why do people always see UFOs that live in the country or are farmers on tractors at six am? I said, "Well that's not true, there are UFO sightings everywhere. It's a phenomenon that encompasses the whole globe from small cities to the biggest towns and New York is no exception."

In fact you probably know that [inaudible 27:05] wrote a book about this lady Linda, who actually was levitated out of her window over the Brooklyn Bridge and went inside their ship and were witnesses and all to this. Anyways...

Jay:  Oh, was that story, hang on. We have to take a break. But was that story actually true? That was true?

Timothy:  Well, I didn't go up with her. [laughs]

Jay:  But do you think that story was true?

Timothy:  I don't know, I mean I know the lady. She's a very nice woman. In fact, we had her out to one of our conferences in Phoenix that we were organizing. And had her sit up for a workshop that only a couple of people signed up. And she still did the workshop. We went into the bar, had a beer with the people and she gave her talk. She's a very believable lady. I don't know if...

Jay Weidner: I am here to remind everyone of our website www.sacredmysteries.com where you can find the best in spiritual videos and films. Our newest set of Qi Gong instructional videos are out titles The Alchemy of Qi Gong with master teacher Pedram Shojai. Check out www.jayweidner.com for more high weirdness.

Speaking of high weirdness, we're here with Timothy Beckley ‑ what my wife would probably call a madman, as she calls me, doesn't know what I'm doing and is wondering why I hang out with so many weird people. And I was going to ask you, Tim. I see on your bio here that you're a horror film fan. Is that true?

Timothy:  Actually I have to blame that on Nancy Reagan, believe it or not.

Jay:  [laughs]

Timothy:  Which I know might sound pretty strange. But I don't know if most people realize, but Nancy Reagan before she became Mrs. Reagan, was Nancy Davis.

Jay:  That's right.

Timothy:  An actress in Hollywood who did ‑ I don't know what her background is, to be honest with her. But the movie that influenced me is a film that she did called, "Donovan's Brain."

Jay:  "Donovan's Brain."

Timothy:  And it was shot in black‑and‑white. And I'm not sure what year, but I think in the early 1950s. Anyway, I know as a kid, it was being broadcast on television. And I guess it was on at a reasonably late hour. I wanted to see it, but my mother wouldn't let me stay up that late because I had school the next day. Not that that normally mattered, but I couldn't sneak under the covers and listen to it like I did "Long John."

But my mother wanted to watch it, of course. I could hear the movie in the next room. And I remember hearing the sound of Donovan's brain being kept alive in a jar, I guess, or something like that, right?

It was one of these brains‑go‑out‑of‑body, or something. And I could hear the sound of the machinery pumping: "ba‑boom, ba‑boom, ba‑boom, ba‑boom." Anyway, it frightened the bejesus out of me for some reason that I really can't explain.

But I guess in a sense it was a good horror movie. Because today you have all these special effects, so that ruins it for me. The whole thing about a horror movie is the shadows and the sounds and so forth.

Anyway, after that night I couldn't go to sleep without sleeping with a nightlight on. But I saw that movie. It was on TV maybe about 10 or 15 years ago and I said, "This movie frightened me so much when I was young. Now I have to see the real film."

Well, I turned that movie on and I shut it off in 15 minutes. It was so boring. Horror movies have come a long way since that was made. And the acting wasn't all that great and the theatrics weren't all that great either, except for the brain being kept alive in a jar: "ba‑bumm, ba‑bumm, ba‑bumm." [laughter]

I always enjoyed horror movies. And I guess that had a great impact on me, because later on in life I started working for a couple of small movie companies around Times Square. I had an office in Manhattan. I worked for Jim Moseley. He had a magazine, "Saucer News."

I would come into the city ‑ this was back when I was in my late teens ‑ and I went around Times Square, and in those days you could see two movies for a buck including a newsreel and a cartoon, although I don't think on Times Square they were too interested in the cartoon.

Anyway, a lot of them were horror movies and so forth and so on, and I met a lot of the small movie producers who had offices around Times Square.

I met a few of them, and I got into the movie business when I wasn't working in publishing. Because I edited over the years probably about 30 different magazines, none of which lasted more than a couple of issues. But I met some of these small‑time producers and I became the publicist for their film companies. And then I...

Jay:  Did you know Jack Harris? He did "The Blob," and ...

Timothy:  Well, I didn't meet him. But I knew quite a few of these fellows. There was a fellow, Sherman, who had a company who actually became very much interested and involved in UFOs over the years. He has a movie out about the UFO contacts at Edwards Air Force Base. Anyway, I met some of these guys who went to work for these little film companies promoting their little horror movies, and later on I decided I wanted to become a horror movie person myself, so I put out a series of movies under the name of "Mr. Creepo Presents," and they were some pretty wild low‑budget things.

They're being repackaged and some of them will be put out early next year by Reality Entertainment...

Jay:  Oh, they're good.

Timothy:  And they're available now on Amazon.com. If you just look up Mr. Creepo, you'll find the videos, and some of them are on vampires, and I've written books on were wolves and everything. My publishing company, Inner Light Global Communications, we started out mainly as UFOs and New Age, but you've got to move on, if you're going to be a successful publisher, and to stay in business you've got to go with what people are interested in.

So we've done books on psychic pets, and we've published books by Brad Steiger, and Commander X we pointed out, and Tim Swartz, and so forth, so we're very eclectic, and we keep going and we do a lot of different things, because not everybody's interested in the same thing. So we give them a little bit of everything out there.

In fact, we put out a bi‑monthly newsletter which is available online, conspiracyjournal.com, or it's available through the mail, if people don't have the Internet, or they want a hard copy to look at, and we always come out with probably six new books a month that are our own, some video tapes and products from other producers and publishers and so forth.

So we present this with an open mind and attitude and let people decide what path they want to take and study. We present it, and then you decide.

Jay:  That's what I do, too.

Timothy:  Yes, you do! And a very good job you do.

Jay:  Well, thank you. I used to actually write horror films, believe it or not.

Timothy:  Is that right? Did you do "Donovan's Brain"?

Jay:  I did not. I was about two years old when that movie came out.

Timothy:  Nobody will take credit! [laughs]

Jay:  I won't take credit for the ones I wrote either. [They laugh] They were pathetic. I'm a big horror film fan myself, Tim. And I agree with what you said about modern horror‑it's too techy.

Jay Weidner:   I'm Jay Weidner, and you're listening to one of the more intelligent shows on the air. I want to remind you all my new movie "Infinity" is out. If you want to get more information on that you can go to our website at http://www.Jayweidner.com or http://www.sacredmysteries.com.

And let's see here we a good guest tonight, someone we've been wanting to talk to for a long time. So I'm going to cut short all my talk and go straight to him; we have Timothy Green Beckley. UFO and paranormal pioneer. . I think I've read about 15 of his books.

Timothy Green Beckley:  Oh my goodness.

Jay:  Made a major influence on my life, and I didn't even realize they were his books, a lot of them. So I guess I have you to blame for me I guess Timothy.

Timothy:  Well my goodness, I guess that's a good sign. I hope so anyway.

Jay:  Yeah, yeah, you've been around the block. There is no doubt about it.

Timothy:  Well I've been around the universe.

Jay:  Yeah, really and truly this guy, folks, he actually was on Long John Neville's show right.

Timothy:  Yeah, I was.

Jay:  God what am I hearing.

Timothy:  John was the all night pioneer of paranormal radio.

Jay:  The Art Bell of his day.

Timothy:  He was, yes. I'm sure John... well they don't even deny it, George Noory has mentioned Long John on the air. Everybody who's who in the UFO, and physic, metaphysical field would have to give some sort of tribute to Long John. Although he was not... you have to separate from the hosts of today because John was not necessarily a believer. He was more of a storyteller and a trendsetter. He liked to get up there and stay all night and listen to these individuals who claimed they had been to other planets.

He had on the contactees. These are the people who actually stated the UFO and new age movement, if you want to call it that. They would get on his show and they would talk about their trips to other places and the solar system and beyond.

People like George Adamsky and George Van Tassel. There was a fellow from Arkansas who always wore overalls, that was Buck Nelson, who claimed that him and his dog Poe had been to the Mars moon and Venus.

They were others like Dan martin, and Truman Detrum who met Aura reins the lady from the planet Clairum that existed from beyond the Sun. The list just went on and on.

One of my favorites a gentleman who I know fairly well, he just passed away a couple of months ago in his 80's, Howard Menger. Howard Menger was the best known of the east coast contactees. Most of these contacts were taking place in and around California. While Howard lived in the town of High Bridge, New Jersey.

Howard was a sign painter. Fairly well established in the neighborhood there; a very rural area. Howard had grown up in Brooklyn New York, but I guess the parents decided they wanted to leave the big city and live a more quiet life out in the rural area. So they moved out to High Bridge when Howard was ten years old.

Now he and his brother use to play out in the pasture behind the farmhouse there. On a number of occasions they would be out playing in the back and these silvery disk shaped object would come over and when Howard was ten years old he claims that one of these crafts actually landed in the field near by and he established contact with the beings on board this craft.

Now they visited him over a period of, oh I guess many, many years, it would be 30 years or more. There were people who would come to Howard's house because they heard that these ships were landing there.

And I have even talked to a number of them on the telephone who claimed that while they were at Howard's house they decided to go out back after it got dark, and they were some apple orchards back there if I remember correctly.

And they would see these lights tinkling off in the distance, right just above the ground. And on a number of occasions Howard would tell them to stay back and he would approach these lights.

And they'd see people getting out of the lights or conversing with Howard and they could actually hear the voices of these people off in the distance and measured... actually took some photographs of whoever it was he was speaking with.

And some people felt these contacts were actually going on. And he told some pretty wild and amazing stories. I mean he claimed that he had actually been on board these craft.

He actually taken a trip to the moon where there was an established UFO base, but these stories... I was just attracted to them. I didn't necessarily say I would believe them 100%, but I was in awe. This was the time when the whole world was thinking about traveling in space. It was a novelty, it was something new.

We had our own astronauts. It was something people hadn't heard before. UFO's of course had always been around, but it was a novelty to most people. It certainly intrigued me.

At a very young age I would sit there under the covers with my first transistor radio and listen to Long John when I should be going to sleep, and getting up early in the morning to go to school, but I would rather listen to Howard Menger, and tails of the UFO contactees, trips to other planets.

I guess that had a whopping big impact on my life for better or worse.

Jay:  Yeah, well I mean I think he had a big impact on a lot of people who listened to him. I've seen one UFO. I was near Vandenberg Air Force base and this was about seven years ago. I was looking up, it was up in the mountains, and beautiful starlit night and I noticed a star went and blinked out on me and then came back on and so I looked really close and I saw. I can't say a saw an object; I saw a round black thing that was blocking out the stars as it passed overhead. And it left a... it had a wake it looked like almost, like a heat wave wake. But I have since thought that it was maybe it was some electro magnetic radiation I was seeing, I'm not sure.

But anyway, I have actually seen a UFO. What do you think they are honestly after all these years of looking?

Timothy:  I think I'm more puzzled now then I think I ever was. You know when we see say a UFO. Basically a UFO is an unidentified object. It can be way up in the sky, on the rim of the Earth's atmosphere, it could be something that cases an airplane pilot, and it could be something that's at tree level, or could be something that's on the ground. It could be something outside the house, it could be something sometimes that even invades your property.

UFO's are I think a lot of different things. You know I think for a long time we had a tendency to believe that UFOs were these metallic spaceships from other planets.

And of course, there have been any number of reports where airplane pilots have been buzzed by these things. There have been many incidences where there have been power failures and electrical interruptions because a UFO has gotten too close, just like in the movie, "Close Encounters of the Third Kind."

But I think UFOs are a lot of different things. Some of them could well be from outer space. Some could be from other dimensions, what we call altered terrestrials. Some, possibly, time‑travelers. Some are tied in with the religious phenomena and mythology.

So UFOs ‑ I don't know, each one has to be determined on its own merits. And how in the heck do you do that?

Jay:  I don't know. I've been reading the same stuff that you have and looking for years. And oh, I've read Commander X and John Keel, and John Keel's one of my very...

Timothy:  Well, John of course has now passed away...

Jay:  Yes, he has.

Timothy:  ... in June of this year, and he was a good friend of mine. We were more then just UFO people working it together. We had the same interest in movies and so we socialized quite a bit. And of course, he wrote quite a bit about what he felt were beings that were coming over from some other reality or from some other dimension. He did not see UFOs as being solid, physical craft from somewhere else. He's probably best known for the book "The Mothman Prophecies," which later was made into a movie starring Richard Gere. And people were [inaudible 09:46] .

Jay:  What did John think of that movie?

Timothy:  What did he think of it? Well, John had been involved. Of course, he's been a producer for a lot of TV shows. He'd worked in the film industry and things like that. So he realized that it wasn't exactly 100 percent based on the book. But you know, Hollywood is Hollywood. And sometimes you've got to look the other way in order for an idea or a storyline to get developed. And there a lot of things you might be able to write about in a book that aren't going to project very well in the theater. And people go to the movies, they want to be entertained. That's the bottom line, or for the most part.

So he did not have any great criticisms against it. I think he realized it was what it was, and he was happy that it got to be made. To me, it's kind of like the same thing with the contactees. They might have had some experiences, and at some times they might have just been over sensationalistic.

But they got their point across. And sometimes people come to a belief or they come to an idea through different paths.

Some people might be turned on to UFOs because of a documentary they see on TV. Other people might be turned onto it because they saw "Close Encounters of the Third Kind." People have different paths in life, and I think John realized that.

And it might not have been 100 percent the way that he would've wanted to make the film, but I think he was happy with it. He got a kick out of the action and finally ...

Jay:  I actually liked it. I thought it was a pretty good film.

Timothy:  Yeah, I did too.

Jay Weidner:  One last reminder about our website www.sacredmysteries.com. Our new film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip: Journey Beyond Death has finally been released to rave reviews. The film features Neale Donald Walsch, Gregg Braden, Dannion Brinkley, Alberto Villoldo and many others.

We're here with Cliff High, and we're talking about some very serious stuff here, and I think you guys should be listening because it may get down to surviving here. So the Nazis were really into this ‑ and they got a little panicked because their numbers told them that the thing wasn't going to happen until 2440, around there, and so they couldn't reconcile the two. And the entire 20th century ‑ it sounds crazy ‑ is a direct result of their fear of what is coming.

Cliff:  Their fear that they were wrong in their math.

Jay:  Exactly. And it went into a panic state, created the Nazis, the Zionists, the ‑ everything was a creation by them for an endgame. There was no Cold War, they were puppet mastering both sides to conquer the hyperdimensional aspects of the saucer technology. And I call it Project GOOD. GOOD stands for "Get Out of Dodge." And I think [laughs] I mean, this sounds crazy, but I think they're abandoning the Earth, they're so dang afraid of what's going on.

Cliff:  Well, there's the other issue though, too, if they're just planning on trucking out into space, that doesn't do them any good, especially on anything that's electromagnetic, because the level of magnetics that we're talking about it just going to be huge.

Jay:  No, I think that they're burying themselves on Mars, actually.

Cliff:  OK.

Jay:  It's the only thing they can do. There's a lot of proof of a lot of weird things going on on Mars, and I think that it's been going for maybe the last 40 years or so.

Cliff:  And also, unlike Earth, Mars ‑ if you wanted to tunnel in and be underground when this occurred, Mars would be the place to go. Its relationship to the Sun and relative to Earth is it's slightly further out, so it may not be impacted as seriously, plus it doesn't appear to have the tectonic issues that we do.

Jay:  It doesn't. There are no tectonic plates, there are no magnetic fields. At least I don't think there are. And yeah, I think that's what's going on, and I think it's pretty obvious, actually, to anyone watching. And furthermore, the texts, the ancient Indian texts say that the elites escape and go somewhere. And they actually name the planet, which is Mahar, which is pretty close to Mars. So I don't know, I think that might be the explanation for a lot of what's going on, everything from flying saucers to conspiracies.

Cliff:  All the other goofy stuff, yeah.

Jay:  Yeah. All the conspiracies could be united. This is the grand unified theory of conspiracies, you see. And basically, they're just getting out of Dodge and doing everything they can to get out. And I don't know, do you think that they can be safe underground, like...

Cliff:  There are issues in many different levels, then. If you're talking multiple generations, no, I don't think that's possible. And then you may have to, because who knows how long it's going to take here? There are some indications that volcanism should be extraordinary for 30 or 40 years after this event, so coming back in that period of time wouldn't make a whole lot of sense. So there are all of those kinds of things. Plus, if I'm correct, humans right now are responding in the way that Gurdjieff referred to with the solar looniness right? We're getting a little wacky from this extra input from the Sun.

Jay:  That's right.

Cliff:  And when that magnetic wave goes through, we may indeed find that the 6% or 7% of the populace that is electromagnetic sensitive could be in a world of hurt, maybe even experiencing this thing as a gravity wave, or it may be so severe that we all feel it that way, and that's going to cause dislocation mentally for a great number of people, just ‑ I'm assuming. But it may be so large that it could be virtually everyone no matter where you are.

Jay:  I think so. Actually, I think ‑ I don't know. I'll tell you what, you're one of the few guys that I've ever heard who has noticed the change in the color of the Sun. And I'm an amateur photographer, and I've been photographing the Sun for about 45 years, and I'm telling you, I have had to change my filters because the Sun is getting so bright. And I'm adding, now, three neutral‑density filters on to get good images of the sun, sunspots and things. And the sun has gone from a yellow, when I was a kid, to a very bright white right now.

Cliff:  Right. And as I'm fond of saying, Superman would have no powers if he showed up today. He's be in a white sun.

Jay:  [laughs]

Cliff:  Just like his home planet. So it's like, "Hmm." No, I did a whole series of sun experiments here in the northwest for, jeez, well over a year and a half, in the 1999 through 2000 period. Drove my wife crazy. I'm sure she thought I was just absolutely nuts.

I had these Secchi‑disk kind of things sitting out there to judge whiteness and color, and then also various different types of nomen and various different chunks of plywood with nails chunk in them for alignment and all this other issue, as well as getting out with the sextant, because I was convinced that the sun was behaving oddly in other ways, not just in color and intensity and hue but also in the various different kinds of energies that were coming from it.

And indeed, the Russians were speaking then of the actinic rays going up to the point where they were finding issues with livestock in the Siberia and other areas, where they were attempting to build an economy based on, basically, reindeer herding. And they were having issues relative to the poor reindeer, and even the people, because of the actinic rays. So things were changing, even in 1999, that were at a noticeable level.

And then you start looking outside the US mainstream media, the propagandistic press, and you find all kinds of corroborating information that things just are not right. And no one discusses it here because, of course, then it would break the illusion.

I mean, we all live in the wonderful world of Freemasonry America, the 32nd‑degree Scottish Rite version of it all. And we're not to criticize. Bush isn't a moron, the dollar isn't going to die, everything's going to be quite nice, and so on. So, we just don't hear it, and it doesn't exist. Unfortunately, it does exist, and we've got to start facing it.

Jay:  It may be the solar lunatics, who knows, because if they're all acting, then they should all get Academy awards. That's all I've got to say. They're doing the best job I've ever seen. Central casting's doing a great job, and it is truly one of the most amazing things to watch, the stupidity of the American people. But, that said, I have to say, about 25 years ago, I was writing a book about the moon, and working with Hoagland on his early moon stuff. And I was talking to a lot of upper‑level NASA people, and one of the guys told me, he said, "There's something really going on, and we're terrified." And I said, "Well, what is it?" And he said, "Well, we've had a group up at the North Pole for five years, and they were studying..."

He wouldn't really tell me what they were studying, but he said that the sun is getting hotter, and it is exponential. And he said, "We're terrified." I've never talked to the guy again, but I'll never forget it. And this was before I'd really gotten into the Hendaye work. So it was like, as I got into the Hendaye work, the bead of sweat worked its way down my brow as I realized that NASA was looking into this, and there was no doubt about it.

Cliff:  Yeah. Yeah. And I've had confirmation at various different levels, from all different kinds of people, especially as I've gotten a certain amount of infamy here. Other people say, "Oh, yeah, you may be a nut‑job, but I think I can trust you. And by the way, I know this." It's like, "Oh, OK, that's interesting." And tons of money and stuff going into the South Pole, because they do suspect that in 2012, the outburst will be south‑facing. If we're very lucky, and it was magnetically positive, or north‑aligned, then it wouldn't be quite so terrible for us. The pole flip would be maybe not even 180 degrees internally, and the external crustal shift might be very small indeed.

However, everything seems to point to the longer cycle that we're in, this 11,800‑and‑some‑odd‑year cycle, as being more intense. And it kind of makes sense because, when this occurs, it perturbs the orbits of the planets, which change the cycle for the next time around, thus all of the lack of precision within the precession, which always annoyed me.

Jay:  Me, too.

Cliff:  It shouldn't be that weird. It shouldn't be that irregular.

Jay:  Yeah.

Cliff:  It should be very damn precise. I like my mathematics to work out that way. Well, it does work out that way if you know what's going on, and that every so often you get a new orbital period and your angle's kicked around and your precession changes. Except me, and you get this "well, duh" moment, and that's when you start working on your boat.

Jay:  [laughs] Yes. The boat with a lot of padding, because, baby ‑‑ go ahead.

Cliff:  There's the rub. If you look at some of the historical literature, you find out that people in wicker boats, that is to say the reed boats, survived by coating them in pitch and other things. And you see records of this even in Lake Titicaca, where they revere these boats for having saved the humankind.

Jay:  That's right.

Cliff:  And it probably did.

Jay:  And the boats in Egypt that are stone, near the pyramids, are like a religion...

Cliff:  Yeah. And then look at, what was it, Abydos, the 12 Viking‑style boats that were carefully disassembled and stored with reverence, to give us a big clue. And they were in the middle of the damn desert.

Jay:  And also, Isis is always standing on a crescent moon. And the crescent moon, in Egyptian, is called a "barc," which is the same word for boat.

Cliff:  I was going to say, also, the Russian word for boat is "baidar," and a small boat is "baidarka." And the Inuit know their boats as "baidar," from the Russians, but before that, they also had a word that was "aidar, " as in "aidark." So it just goes on and on and on.

Jay:  Absolutely.

Cliff:  And being a small‑boat person, I'm a boat nut. I have been all my life. Universe just made me this way. It's my natural response to things. I've been building boats for so long that periodically I have the reduction‑of‑the‑fleet [laughs] kind of moods, where I give boats away because I've got too many of them here and I'm afraid the wife's going to hit me with one of them.

Jay:  [laughs]

Cliff:  But in any event, knowing about boats as I do, I've been fascinated by it all. And then you find out that, yeah, it does kind of make sense. It is possible to make little, tiny boats that are unsinkable and self‑righting. And basically, if you're in the right spot and your karma is good, you come through this kind of stuff, and a lot of the ancient myths make sense under those circumstances.

Jay:  Dang, I like that. That's really good. Oh, we only scratched the surface. It's too bad. We were talking to Cliff High. Go to HalfPastHuman, get the you‑know‑what scared out of you, and start building your boat. I think I need you to start a company for us, so we can build our own boats. And you can supply the plans. We'll buy them from you. Or something like that.

Cliff:  No, no. Buy the plans right now. Philip Bolger, Advanced Sharpie, AS‑29.

Jay:  Oh, all right. I will. I'll check it out. You check it out, too, folks. Hey, thanks, Cliff. Been good talking to you.

Jay Weidner: I'm Jay Weidner. Make sure you check out www.sacredmysteries.com for all of our great films and videos like The Alchemical Dream with Terence McKenna, his last film in fact. Also the ultimate film on crop circles Stardreams. And also the two films that defined the entire 2012 subject: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013.

We're talking to Cliff High, and we're talking about his work and Patrick Geryl's work on magnetics of the sun and how this is probably the key to understanding the physics around what is going to happen in 2012. And the Nazis were obsessed by all this stuff. I've been following that story for a long time, and your discovery of the swastika type motion, looking down from the North, of this magnetic thing, it just strikes me. Because the Nazis have the black sun, and they have a lot of solar myths and motifs.

And when Hitler visited Hendaye in 1940 ‑‑ I don't think I put this in the book ‑‑ but he actually, the first thing he did as soon as the train car pulled into Hendaye was walk straight up to the Cross of Hendaye.

Cliff:  I'm very interested, then, yeah. Well, I hear that they took it actually form the Jain. The swastika actually was taken for the National Socialist Party from the symbols on the Jain palm, all of which are associated within the Jain cosmology with the sun and periodic catastrophes.

Jay:  Yes. And Jainism really comes as, like, a hybrid of Dravidian culture, which carried on a lot of the traditions that speak about catastrophe. In fact, they're the creators of the yuga system and all of that. So it's very interesting how all of this begins to dovetail together.

Cliff:  I think it's scary, yeah.

Jay:  It is scary.

Cliff:  If it was just one or two cultures, then you could convince yourself you were being nuts, that kind of thing. But repeatedly getting kicked in the head by all of this, and then seeing the non‑random numbers, the continuous repetition from the Norse myths all the way through the Hindus and the Mayans, basically for the irrational component of the numbers associated with the sunspot cycle, and it's like, there is a big "hmm" in there.

Jay:  Yeah. The thing that people, I think, really have to understand, and it's very important because if you don't understand this, you don't get the rest of it: there really has to have been an advanced culture, a very advanced culture, in the distant past, and they figured all this out and did everything they could to pass that information down. And once you understand that, then everything begins to click together. But the key is to not look at it with your own filters, to try to look at it with what they were trying to tell us and not what you think they were trying to tell us. I think that's what you did. You looked at this with a clear head, and it's very frightening. I don't know what to say. I want to order one of your boats.

[laughter]

Jay:  I can get to 10,000 feet in about 20 minutes from where I live, but I don't know, I really don't.

Cliff:  Well, there is the issue. If this is as devastating as it seems to be, and there appears to be another cycle within these cycles of cataclysms ‑ in other words, every other one appears to be not quite so bad.

Jay:  That's right.

Cliff:  And then we're at the point of one of the bad ones, unfortunately. And if you look at things like the Narmer plate, we're at the 12th cycle there. They actually recorded 11 previous cataclysms, and the only other group to do that is actually this Northern Siberian myth that records also eleven previous cataclysms, and that even actually records the one where Siberia was slipped in under the ice, and it has a little bit in there about having to flee from the ice that overcame them in just days and just simply wouldn't cease and how they had to basically run as a tribe from it. But anyway, it's all quite frightening. The idea of survival, though, does exist because we've done it before. I'm of the opinion that humans go back at least eight million years on this planet.

Jay:  Oh, good.

Cliff:  And there is demonstrable evidence from my relatives' area in California of this. I mean, they used to do gold mining in the area, and they would go down to bedrock ‑ or not bedrock, to layers that had been covered over by the mountains eight million years ago, and they would find modern homo sapiens skeletons in the gravel bed.

Jay:  Anyone famous?

Cliff:  Some of them with clothing still sort of hanging on. They didn't put them in there any other way. They weren't swept into the gravel recently. And so if that's the case, then we have to say, "Well, we've been through it so repeatedly that you're probably correct. There was probably a master civilization, maybe 40,000 or 50,000 years back, that set things in motion in terms of trying to preserve this, which basically leads us up to the perversions of the Freemasonry idea today.

Jay:  And the creation ‑ what religions are really about, which is passing on this message and trying to make people, in a way, fearless, because one day you're going to have to be fearless to survive this kind of thing. How many days long does this take, do you think? Are we going to get hit by a coronal mass ejection and then we're going to get hit by the other things?

Cliff:  It's all part of a process. There will probably be a bow wave, and then that instantly, or completely, or being driven by it pushing, it will be the CME, and then we'll get the flips of the magnetics, and then the crustal action. And there are some suggestions that 40 or 50 days is not unlikely. However, the actual flip of the crust is probably a 40‑50 hour process based on my reading of the historical records that are available to be gotten at in this. The issue is the whole process, though, can be thought of as probably a year long, because the build‑up to it is quite exceptional.

I had the good fortune when I was a kid ‑‑ or bad fortune, I don't know, whatever ‑‑ to be stuck in Germany as one of the earliest of the dependents of the education forces, and was forced to read a lot because there just wasn't a whole lot else to do.

And I came across a bunch of books that were stored in this old SS building that we used as a library where we were stationed there, and some of these books were really interesting, and they had translations of languages I had never seen before as a kid, and they were done for the German military.

And it was strange books, and some of them were obviously done by people that were prisoners of the Germans, one British fellow who made annotations in his translations as he went along. And he translated a bunch of Sanskrit.

And I read these marvelous stories about this civilization, which I now know to be probably the Harappan civilization, that were discussing about this particular village, and it was from the viewpoint of this headmaster who had all of this stuff set down, and he was the guy who controlled the size of the bricks.

Basically, their hierarchy was in masonry, but it was about building the houses and stuff. But in any event, he talks about a period where the houses fell over because of a big earthquake. No big deal, they rebuilt them. Well, three weeks later they all fell over again because of another big earthquake, so they rebuilt them again.

And it goes on and on this way until about three or four months later they're getting an earthquake a day, and finally everybody is living in tents because there's just no point in rebuilding the houses anymore. And it was then that the translator of that particular book tied that over to another book that he had translated for the Germans that was related to the myth of Manu, the survivor by a boat. And so going back, they were intimately and desperately interested in this information.

Jay:  And then that carries forth into NASA. NASA is desperately interested in this information. And of course the Nazis, German scientists were at the beginning of NASA, which is another incredibly interesting subject. We'll be right back

Jay:   I'm Jay Weidner. Just a reminder that our website www.sacredmysteries.com has a lot of great videos and films. As they say The Best in Spiritual Films and Videos. Our new film Sophia Returning with John Lash is there as well as the new three part comprehensive Qi Gong series The Alchemy of Qi Gong with Pedram Shojai.

I'm talking to Cliff High of HalfPastHuman. Go to "radio special" there at the top and look at all the great stuff. One of the things that I started tracking, after I finished with the Hendaye work, was to see if there was anybody doing anything in the power structure to prepare for what the Hendaye material was saying was going to happen. That's when I found the Georgia Guidestones and the stuff in the Denver airport, and I started finding all this creepy stuff everywhere. Everywhere.

Cliff:  I was just going to call it creepy, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Jay:  [laughs] And then I began looking into Freemasonry, in a real way, and reading some of the more obscure Freemasonic books and things. And what I've come to realize is that the entire purpose of Freemasonry, as far as I can tell, is to pass on the information of this disaster.

Cliff:  Sure. To perpetuate that and get them motivated and carry that forward, whether they know it or not. Yeah.

Jay:  Absolutely. Robert Lawlor has a book coming out, and I don't want to ace him on this because it's so cool, but he proves that the people who build the United States know that there's some disaster coming. And I'm not talking about the people that are alive right now. I'm talking about the people who created the United States. The founding fathers were completely aware of all this. And when you see his material, it's impossible to believe. Impossible. And I want to get another thing out about what you were talking about with this 19.5. The Merkabah, of course, most people know, and Hoagland's work, we know that there's these massive outpourings on all the planets at 19.47. And what Cliff's saying is that when these bands finally cross over into this latitude zone, that's when they're going to begin throwing out, right?

Cliff:  That's actually, no, the crook of the arm in a normal... In the 11,000 years leading up to the explosion, as the planets twist the equator and pull these arms into a distorted, bent position, as that angle crawls up past 19.47, that's when a sunspot is created normally.

Jay:  Normally. I see, right.

Cliff:  OK. And then, actually, you'll get to a point where, if you think about it as like strings wound around a croquet ball, eventually you can't get any of the bends to go up that high, because you're down near the equator. You've essentially filled up the ball. And that's where we're at now, I believe. And the sunspots that we're going to see now will not occur from the bend, actually, going up to 19.47, but rather from an individual strand of the yarn around the croquet ball being twisted and twisted and twisted, in and of itself, to the point that it flops around kind of like a garden hose with too much water going through it, right?

And as it does so, it will expose that 19.47‑degree area, occasionally, for these brief and rather chaotic form of sunspots that will not really follow a normal sunspot parent.

Jay:  Got you.

Cliff:  If I'm correct about this, those sorts of sunspots, probably you'd never get more than two or three of them clustering together, instead of the large groups that we've sometimes seen. And their lifespan should be very brief and extremely violent, in terms of what they're throwing off, because they're basically we can think of as sort of like the rocking of the pressure‑cooker weight at an extreme level and little bits of steam coming out occasionally because it's that kind of tension that's occurring that causes these forms of sunspots.

And I'm still tracking Space Weather and NOAA and a few of the other places to see if this recent one is indeed one of those, since we've had such a huge absence of them, 200‑plus days this year, an exceptional length of time. In fact, it's so long, it's got the stellar evolutionists talking about a Maunder‑style minimum, an ice‑age‑forming, lack‑of‑sunspot period. Which, coincidentally, if you read what's his name, Pricesworth, I think? The guy who wrote "Not by Fire but by Ice."

Jay:  Oh, yeah. Great, great, great writer. Yeah.

Cliff:  Yeah. And he's talking about these magnetic reversals, which is exactly what is the cause for the flip within the Earth itself. And all of this stuff is indeed encoded, in extremely intelligent ways, in all these myths. And it's like, "A‑ha! They were trying to tell us something!" But getting back to something I wanted to say earlier was your mentioning about the living in the caves in Peru, that's also the same story from some of the Salish‑related Native Americans up here east of the mountains where they record living in caves for a long time.

But what I find curious is that the myth structure around the ‑ say, near the tropical, through the equatorial regions of the planet ‑ discussed survival by boat, where those in the upper regions suggested the issue of fire and surviving in caves.

Quite curious, because there is predicted in one of Geryl's books the predicted effect from this, and that is that as this flip occurs and the magnetosphere is quite literally turned completely around with a giant hole in it, that in the temperate zones both North and Southern Hemisphere you might get in a situation where you would be absolutely, incredibly inundated with all kinds of flaming objects from space simply because there is nothing out there to repel them.

Jay:  Right, exactly. I mean, you would think at that point anything could happen, and we could get ‑ we really don't know. The slightest fire with the winds could spread and destroy thousands of acres of forest. Waves could be pushed very high.

Cliff:  Well, that's a curious issue. There is some of the literature that has survived that, if you read it correctly, it's actually from people that survived the whole process, and there is in one of the Sanskrit literatures...

Jay:  Oh, yeah, a lot of it.

Cliff:  I'm sorry, there is a Sanskrit literature where there is this sea captain who writes about the occurrence of 55 hours, basically, of a horrific hell that ended up moving him nearly 1,500 miles.

Jay:  [laughs] That's seriously traveling.

Cliff:  [laughs] Especially by sail.

Jay:  Yeah, I've heard a lot of those stories. I've collected a lot of them, actually, from all over, including the Salish. And I'm Jay Weidner. We're talking to Cliff High. You're listening to the Smoke and Mirrors Radio Hour. Go to HalfPastHuman, look at the graphics. We're going to talk about the Nazis and stuff, too, because I think they knew about it. Believe it or not, Hitler visited the Hendaye Cross. OK, we'll be back. [music]

Jay Weidner:   My name is Jay Weidner, Make sure you go to www.sacredmysteries.com and check out our new Qi gong series The Alchemy of Qi Gong with Pedram Shojai. Also Sopia Returning with John Lash another one of Sacred Mysteries new films. So, without further ado, I am going to introduce you to the infamous Cliff High of HalfPastHuman.

Cliff:  Go Google "web bots." I'm tired of explaining it.

Jay:  Exactly. That's how I feel about my Hendaye stuff. It's like, "Just go read it."

Cliff:  That's why you wrote the book. Exactly.

Jay:  Yeah, exactly. All right. So Cliff has an awesome computer program which looks into things, and he's been able to predict events, and go Google him and you'll find it out. But what we're here to talk about tonight is Cliff's kind of piggybacked his theory on top of Patrick Geryl's, and a little dash of Hendaye and some Carl Calleman, and put it together and come up with a rather evocative explanation for 2012. And, although I try to stay on the positive, I cannot deny what you are saying because your numbers are coming out right, and that's what worries me, is when the math comes out right.

Cliff:  It's always scary.

Jay:  Yeah. Tell us about the sun. Let's start with the sun, because everybody that listens to this program knows about how concerned I am with what's going on with the sun right now. And I think your explanation may be the one we've been looking for.

Cliff:  Well, my data had always suggested that we were dealing with magnetics at a level that we could barely understand, and so I was always looking at the sun for some kind of an issue there. And unfortunately, I followed the same trail as almost everyone else and postulated something external to the solar system. However, Patrick Geryl's work provides a mechanism within the sun itself that accounts for everything that we're seeing, from the interplanetary problems, from the individual planets having the climate issues and so on. And they all come back to the sun and a natural, periodic cycle.

And basically, it's an issue of the sun's magnetics wind themselves up into a tizzy over about 11,500 years, and then they've got to decide, "OK, we're going to blow off all this extra energy," and they do it all at once. And that's fundamentally Geryl's approach, and I just added a few things there that seemed to make sense and also allow for the prediction of some other items associated with it.

Jay:  So, basically, what we have here is a 37‑day rotation cycle on the sun...

Cliff:  On the poles.

Jay:  On the poles, which would be its natural cycle.

Cliff:  Yeah. It should determine how fast the whole sun rotates, in total.

Jay:  That's right.

Cliff:  But it doesn't, because the sun has 98% of the mass and 1% or so of the angular momentum. And the planets, while they have very little mass relative to the sun ‑‑ they only have about 1% of the mass of the solar system ‑‑ they have 99% of the angular momentum. So they're dragging the sun's equator around and lapping the pole every 87 days. And apparently, if you do this over the course of 11,500 years, more or less, it gets to the point where it starts manifesting as we see it. And it kind of makes sense. In my lifetime, the sun has changed from its mellow yellow to its current intense white, and sometimes it seems to be shading over slightly into blue.

And this would be a known effect that we see within small magnetic‑containment vessels that are messing around with plasma. And these small containment vessels, formed by giant magnets, are called tokamaks. And if you get your magnets out of alignment, you get the magnetic‑containment vessel all distorted, and the plasma inside it escapes, and normally you have just lost a laboratory. But you learn from your lesson.

And it appears to be, generally, the same kind of an effect that's occurring on the sun. And we have to acknowledge that even NASA has come out recently and said they haven't got a clue as to why the sun is behaving this way.

It should've been this, but no, it didn't do that. It should've been into cycle 24 with some intensity, because they figured it was going to peak in 2012. And if it's going to do that, it should've started really getting active two years ago, which it did not.

Jay:  In fact, the opposite happened.

Cliff:  Correct. Now, in my theory here, or in my addition to Geryl's work, it kind of makes sense that this would occur, that we'd have an absence of sunspots. Because, basically, what occurs to create a sunspot is the coincident alignment of one of the magnetic lines of force being bent by the pole of the planet and sort of crawling up over the face of the sun, and it coincidentally aligns at 19.47 degrees of latitude with a structure internal to the sun itself. And if there is no alignment with the structure, no sunspot is formed at that magnetic alignment point. If there is, the two hook up together for this internal rotation of the sun, approximately 26 degrees, and we would see the sunspot appear, be dark, which really is a cooling in the sort of elbow, if you will, of the magnetic bend, and it would rotate around the planet as that bend wound its way up and towards the pole.

And then, though, in the sense of many windings of cloth around a croquet ball, ultimately you get to the point where those windings are all now below the 19.47 degrees, and you should have an absence of sunspots. In fact, it should continue, in a real sense, until the absolute blow‑off of all this external energy.

And it may indeed be even the last countdown, so to speak, when all the sunspots shift over to a very chaotic kind, not a usual kind at all but something that'll erupt in a few hours and disappear.

These are predictable, and they would be occurring because the individual magnetic lines of force are not able to wrap themselves around the sun anymore, but they can still twist internally, thus briefly exposing holes in the sun's intense magnetic envelope around it and creating an illusion, so to speak, of a sunspot.

And so, if we get to that level, where we've got these chaotic kind of eruptions all over the sun, I would be able to say that, all right, we're in X number of days of the final blow‑off of this external energy. And it should be quite predictable from that point forward.

Jay:  So we're looking for sudden and fast magnetic storms that come and go quickly.

Cliff:  Correct.

Jay:  And when that starts happening on a daily or a weekly basis, we know we're getting close to the blow‑off of this thing, which could result in what?

Cliff:  Well, which will result in a giant magnetic sphere headed outward. There are some questions as to whether the magnetic sphere would be of a uniform nature or a rather haphazard nature in terms of how much magnetism and in what area of the sphere as it expands. But within some general constraints, that sphere should be fairly equally magnetically active, and it should erupt out well beyond the orbits of the inner planets, and that we're in the inner‑planet category, and that may include us.

And if that happens, then Earth is going to get hit with a wave of magnetism that may be so large and so intense that humans and other life would feel it as a form of gravity as it sort of went through the planet. And in its very most‑severe form, if it happened to be of a negative or southern polarity, it would cause a pole shift in our magnetic pole, which may result in a crustal shift as well.

Jay:  My Q'ero friends in the Andes Mountains tell me that what they predict is a term that's called Pachacuti, which means "the world turned upside‑down." I asked them what they saw happening around 2012, and they said, "Well, we're really going to miss our white brothers."

Cliff:  [laughs] Well, we're going to miss them, too, I'm sure. [laughter]

Jay:  Well, I think they have plans. [laughs]

Cliff:  It kind of makes sense, too, this sort of thing happening periodically. Geryl's math is very precise. It makes sense if you imagine that there's this rather complex nature of the sun that gets all whipped up and maintains this date for a while, 11,000 some‑odd years. Then you can look back and say, "Hmm." If that kind of thing occurs, and you get the giant waves that Geryl thinks would occur, then living in places like Machu Picchu makes a whole lot of sense. And that's why they went to the trouble to create such.

Jay:  That's right. And the legends, of course, are that Viracocha stayed in the caves during he last catastrophe and came out and recreated civilization. This is the very central myth of the Q'ero. And so we can see that all of this has been going on for a long time, and it is a periodic thing. And as Fulcanelli warns us, nature is renewed by fire. So this is an event that actually could be argued, in a bizarre spiritual way, as a good thing.

Cliff:  I would actually think it is good, especially in an electromagnetic. And it probably is required to recharge our magnetosphere, which, curiously, recharges 11,000 years.

Jay:  That's exactly right. And so I tell people that this has to happen, because we're densifying at such a rapid rate, at this point, time is literally condensing. Our reaction times are getting shorter, and a potential event caused by human failure is certainly quite possible at this moment. We're going to be right back. We're talking to Cliff High. Cliff, what's your site with all the cool graphics? Where's that at?

Cliff:  Halfpasthuman.com. You can pick it up off the main page, called "radio special."

The Philosopher’s Stone

With

Joseph Farrell

Part Four

Jay Weidner:  Hi I’m Jay Weidner. Check out our great series of DVDs at www.sacredmysteries.com. Sacred Mysteries is a mystery school for the modern age. If you are interested alchemy, astrology, sound healing, the light body, the sacred feminine, 2012, life after death and many other subjects you can find a DVD at www.sacredmysteries.com that will inform you better than any other source. Where else can you find videos with people such as Alberto Villoldo, Alex Grey, Jonathan Goldman, Nicky Scully, Rick Levine, Sharron Rose, Jay Weidner, Gregg Braden, Neale Donald Walsch and many others? 

They moved their operation to the mountains of the spine of lower Andes. Looks like they bought a lot of land on both sides of the Andes, both in Chile and in Argentina. What did they do when they finally got going again?

Joseph:  The activity of this postwar Nazi international is really quite extensive, Jay. If you view it in a certain way, and put all of the Nazi activity together, they certainly were involved in the CIA overthrow of King Farouk in Egypt, and the installation of Gamal Abdel Nasser into power in that country.

They were involved in training Egyptian and Syrian Intelligence. They were certainly involved in various radical Muslim cells, both during and after the war.

They were certainly involved in international terrorist activity. You have, of course, their continuation of some of their top secret research, represented by the bell project.

You have, of course, the now infamous and well‑known deal that was made between Allan Dulles, who was at the time the OSS station chief in Zurich, Switzerland and the head of German military intelligence on the eastern front.

Which basically and effectively meant that when the CIA was finally signed into law by President Truman, that its entire Soviet desk, it's operational Soviet desk, inside of eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, was nothing but a front for a house of Nazi spies.

So the activity of this postwar Nazi international. I do want to stress for people, that this organization has a command structure. It is well financed.

It has deep penetration into American and Canadian intelligence, into the American military‑industrial complex, of course. It has the well known penetration and influence inside of NASA during the space program in the 50's and 60's.

So the activity of this organization is very expensive. You mentioned one other thing that I want to mention. And that's the considerable land that Nazi's bought in Latin America. All over Latin America, really. But you mentioned Argentina and Chile in particular.

And in Argentina, there is a compound that I talk about in The Nazi International, called the Esconcia. Which is an area of roughly 100 square miles. In other words, we're talking about an area almost the size of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.

This was all bought by the Nazi's during the war. And the compound itself, to gain access to it, you had to go through SS security, you had to present military passes to enter it.

And the reason why is that this was strongly rumored, and in fact Argentinean intelligence even stated in its documents, that Bohrman himself was in this compound, during the time that this postwar Nazi bell project is being worked on in Argentina.

So we are talking about a very, very expensive and active organization.

Jay:  Oh yeah. I have a feeling that there's an ulterior motive here, and I think that one of the things that may be going on, is that a group of people became alarmed by some of the things that were being found in these texts.

Joseph:  Yes.

Jay:  And what they became alarmed about was a potential... some kind of catastrophe that actually wipes out literally everything on Earth, believe it or not. Which I have clearly found, in these texts. And that this group of people began funding this operation as an escape hatch. Just in case things got hairy, down here on the ground.

And because of the nature of what they discovered, which is this gigantic coronal mass ejection, which we now know, pretty much, the Earth caught fire several times now. The thing is, is that even underground shelters, I don't know if that would help, or save you, when all the oxygen is sucked up. So, I don't know. I think that it was just a plan.

And that they developed these UFOs themselves. I think the UFOs were developed down there. And you can see there's a steady evolution in UFOs.

Joseph:  Yes.

Jay:  They go from kind of cranky to sleek, just like the cars did.

Joseph:  Right, right.

Jay:  We used to laugh about how you could actually watch the evolution of these things. That connected with the South American thing nails a lot of mysteries. Have you ever heard of the rumor that Fulconelli and Marconi both escaped to South America?

Joseph:  Oh yes, oh yes, I certainly have.

Jay:  Yes. And also, there's the guy who was a friend of Schwaller de Lubicz disappeared, he was a prince. He disappeared, and then he was found, and he was living in Tierra del Fuego.

Joseph:  Oh my. [laughs]

Jay:  Yeah. And he was an alchemist. And he said that the school of Alchemy had been moved from the Pyrenees to the Andes right after the war.

Joseph:  Oh wow. Wow.

Jay:  Pretty interesting stuff.

Joseph:  It's interesting that you mention that possibility of the knowledge of a possible catastrophe. I personally don't read the texts that way myself.

However, if you grant that idea for the sake of argument, I think that there is this whole alternative free scenario that you keep bumping into. No matter whether or not the thing was an actual hoax, which it certainly was.

It certainly did cause people to scratch their heads and wonder, because it was so clearly dead on in some of its respects. The idea that there is some secret space program being coordinated between the United States and the Soviet Union.

In my book the SS Brotherhood of the Bell, I even point out that if you look at the launch schedules of lunar probes between the United States and the Soviet Union, it looks, when you put them side by side and compare them... you know, the Soviets would launch a series, and then they'd sort of stop.

And then we'd launch a series, and then we'd sort of stop. And then the Soviets would launch another series again. And this went back and forth.

So, while it looked to people at the time like there's this neck and neck space race, when you compare the launch schedules, it's almost as if each space program is one half of something much bigger.

And the only thing, Jay, that I can see in the historical record that would have the organization and that had the presence on the ground in those countries, in those space programs, to coordinate some sort of activity like that, and that had, moreover, the intelligence connections between those blocks, was precisely this postwar Nazi organization.

We may very well be looking at some sort of scenario as you outlined. That's a whole area of speculation in itself, that I think probably would require several more books.

Jay:  Oh my goodness. You have no idea. Where we're putting out literally a 10 hour video teaching series with Robert Lawlor. He's been spending twenty straight years now. He's the guy that translated Temple of Man, the huge volume. And he wrote the book on sacred geometry.

He's been spending twenty years now translating, and trying to understand, these texts. And the story they tell just... he's now reading all of your books, because he came and visited me, and then he left, went back to Tasmania, I gave him all your books. Now I have to buy all of your books again.

Joseph:  [laughs] Well thank you.

Jay:  He's put together these series of harmonics...

Joseph:  Yes?

Jay:  ... that keep reappearing in architecture. Interestingly enough, the place with the most number of these harmonics, and no one knows about this work, so when it comes out it's going to be really explosive, is actually Washington, D.C.

Joseph:  Oh.

Jay:  Which proves to both of us that whoever built that place knew something that they shouldn't have known, or seems almost impossible to know. Then you have to go to the next step, and say, oh my goodness, there must be somebody above them that is dictating something to them.

Joseph:  Right.

Jay:  And this gets really really into some strange areas. But quite real, actually, once you understand the truth.

Joseph:  Right.

Jay:  Anyway, I'd like to have you back.

Joseph:  Sure.

Jay:  Because you've really got the number on this. I don't think anybody has, and you've got the street cred, which a lot of people in this biz don't have. And I think that gives you the right kind of voice for this kind of material. Which seems strange to people, but once you understand this torsion physics, it just all begins to really fall into place.

Joseph:  It sure does, it sure does. It's just breathtaking.

Jay:  It is. And then you see what's going on in the world and you realize that they're monkeying around with things that they don't understand.

Joseph:  Yes.

Jay:  And it's going to get really bad if something doesn't happen.

Joseph:  The Large Hadron Collider comes to mind. In terms of this torsion physics, I think when they turned that thing on, and turned it off, I think we've been fed a cover story as to what happened.

Jay:  Oh really? What do you think happened?

Joseph:  Well, again, if you look at that collider, you're dealing with two extremely large counter‑rotating magnetic fields, that are used to accelerate these particles. And as far as I know, these are actually stacked, one on top of the other.

And this is precisely the internal configuration that I argue that was inside the Nazi bell device. So I suspect that what they found was this extreme torsion shear effect. According to the standard models of physics torsion is such a small thing that most physicists tend to dismiss or discount it. I think they may have got something like that out of the collider.

Jay:  Mm. Oh my goodness. I really would like to talk about that. Well, I'll be emailing you, and we'll set up something really soon, because I think I'm going to get a lot of emails about this one. If you want to tell them where to go to your site, quickly here, so that they can get your books and things.

Joseph:  Well, the best place to get the books, of course, would be Amazon.com. My website's www.gizadeathstar.com.

The Philosopher’s Stone

With

Joseph Farrell

Part Three

Jay Weidner:  Hi I’m Jay Weidner. Check out our great series of DVDs at www.sacredmysteries.com. Sacred Mysteries is a mystery school for the modern age. If you are interested alchemy, astrology, sound healing, the light body, the sacred feminine, 2012, life after death and many other subjects you can find a DVD at www.sacredmysteries.com that will inform you better than any other source. Where else can you find videos with people such as Alberto Villoldo, Alex Grey, Jonathan Goldman, Nicky Scully, Rick Levine, Sharron Rose, Jay Weidner, Gregg Braden, Neale Donald Walsch and many others?

The secret is out. Once you understand torsion physics, it opens up a whole new world for you. Ancient disciplines like Tai chi or yoga are actually exercises to cultivate the torsion field that goes around the human body.

So once you understand all this it all begins to make a lot of sense. You realize that we're all torsion fields, little packets of consciousness caught in the fabric of a fractal kind of a network exists, and possibly infinity in all directions, if I may.

Anyway, we're back to that. If you want to know more about that, you've got to study Joseph's work, and read all of his stuff, and everything. Anyway, that's actually the secret of alchemy, right here on the program.

So, let's get back to the philosopher's stone, and what the Nazi's did with all this knowledge that they gathered from ancient sources.

Joseph:  Well, I think basically Jay; I think it is summed up in this Bell Project. Like I say, the Bell Project it is clearly a torsion device. If you read all of my books, and see how the physics and the data points connect to each other, this is clearly what it was. It was a hyper dimensional technology, as it were.

I think, ultimately the aim for the Nazi's was to gain control. As I say, use it as a gateway technology that they could explore three different applications of that physics. Number one, again for the purposes of so‑called 'pre‑energy.' Then secondly as a field propulsion device, because torsion is such a key, crucial element.

Let me give you an example. The sun is nothing but a big, huge rotating ball of plasma. If you look at the standard models of physics, the sun is putting out not enough energy and certain specific particles that the standard Fermi Nuclear model of the sun predicts that it should.

So, this has always been a clue to some physicists that there is some other process. There is some other energy source at work in the sun.

The soviets, in particular Dr. Koserov in the Soviet Union, whom I talk about it at great lengths in the Philosopher's Stone, a famous astrophysicist, decided that what the sun was really doing by rotating this plasma, it was somehow taping into the very energy of space time itself.

So, if you look at the Nazi Bell device, the way I've rationalized it is that it is precisely a device that incorporates a plasma in counter rotating systems. So, in other words it was deliberately conceived by the Nazi's as a torsion physics device.

Now, the link to alchemy, which I find very interesting, is that alchemy, if you read the alchemical text, as you know, stresses over and over again, that one cannot perform any alchemical transmutation if it is not done at the right time.

So, in other words the alchemists were somehow aware that this whole universe is nothing but a system of rotation within systems of rotation, within systems of rotation, and so on and so forth.

The Nazi's, I think somehow when they rejected relativistic physics or so‑called 'Jewish physics, 'what in reality that forced these Nazi's physicists to do, was to think utterly outside the box, which they did. What they came across was precisely this torsion based, or as I like to also call it this 'alchemical' physics.

Jay:  The physics of the future, actually.

Joseph:  The physics of the future, yes.

Jay:  Yeah. Everything is explained by it, and that's why it's so all encompassing. But to try to get it out has been difficult, to get people to understand how it works and why it is so important. So the Nazi's developed this stuff, and they then escaped with it, right?

Joseph:  Oh yes, that's the bad news. Like I say, the scenario that I've outlined in the books is that, basically, as the Nazi leadership, particularly Marin Bohrman and some of his close henchman, see is the war is lost.

What they really do, if you examine the record very carefully, is that the Allies and the Soviet Block get more or less an equal division of the spoils that he wants them to have.

So in other words, we get the creme de la creme of the rocket scientists. But the Soviet Union gets hundreds of middle echelon managers and technicians of the Nazi rocket project that allowed the Soviets to reconstruct the documentation to it.

The United States, as I outline, gets fissionable U‑235. Enough to make an atom bomb, courtesy of Martin Bohrman, in some rather sneaky and typically Bohrman‑esque cunning scheme at the end of the war.

So that, in a certain sense, our Manhattan project owes part of its success, certainly not all of it, but in my opinion part of it, to this infusion of Nazi enriched uranium into the project at the end of the war. The Soviets, on the other hand, manage to get one of the premiere Nazi scientists, who had developed various techniques of isotope enrichment.

What he's doing, Jay, is he's setting up both the western allied block and the Soviet eastern European block, in a kind of cold war stalemate. He's making sure that, by that stalemate, that his Nazi international and Europe have some sort of maneuvering room.

But the best science, the pinnacle of all this secret Nazi research, which is the bell project itself, he sees to it that it does not fall into American or British or Canadian hands. And he sees to it that it doesn't fall into Soviet hands.

He basically, more or less, evacuates the whole dang thing down to Argentina, where after the war you find this project being researched once again by one of the scientists that was involved with the bell project during the war.

He's working on exactly the same stuff, until Peron inadvertently spilled the beans at a press conference in 1951. So what the Nazis do is they have this chief scientist act like a complete fool so they can shut the project down and move it.

[laughter]

Jay:  I love that part. That's really funny. What a world. It is all Disneyland, though, folks. Believe me, they're all acting. Some are better actors than others. Our President is a good actor.

Anyway, we're going to be back, in a few minutes. We're listening to Joseph Farrell, his fascinating story about postwar Nazis in Argentina. We'll be right back, this is great stuff.

The Philosopher’s Stone

With

Joseph Farrell

Part Two

Jay Weidner:  Hi I’m Jay Weidner. Check out our great series of DVDs at www.sacredmysteries.com. Sacred Mysteries is a mystery school for the modern age. If you are interested alchemy, astrology, sound healing, the light body, the sacred feminine, 2012, life after death and many other subjects you can find a DVD at www.sacredmysteries.com that will inform you better than any other source. Where else can you find videos with people such as Alberto Villoldo, Alex Grey, Jonathan Goldman, Nicky Scully, Rick Levine, Sharron Rose, Jay Weidner, Gregg Braden, Neale Donald Walsch and many others?

We're here with Joseph Farrell and I don't want to waste much time in saying much more because he's great, I'll say one thing, and then I want you to talk about your book. Did you know where the Hindenberg was headed when it exploded over New Jersey?

Joseph:  No, I don't.

Jay:  It was headed on an aerial photographic mission of the eastern Andes.

Joseph:  Oh yes, yes. There was actually a project that was proposed in‑between the wars by a German archeologist to use the other giant zeppelin that the Germans had ‑ the Goth zeppelin ‑ to go down there and do photo aerial reconnaissance of areas that he thought would be interesting to do archeological expeditions.

So yeah, that idea was something that was definitely current in Nazi Germany. I didn't know that the Hindenburg was ever considered for that, so that's very interesting.

Jay:  Yeah it was headed that way when it took off, actually, and it's very interesting, there are lots of other stories that go up and down the spine of the Andes, about all of this, and it just gets more curious as you investigate it. Peter Levenda has done some great work.

Joseph:  Yeah, I know peter.

Jay:  Ah Yeah, he's great. OK so, let's talk about ''The Philosopher's Stone'' and what the connection has to alchemy and to the Nazis and what they discovered.

Joseph:  Well, essentially in that book, Jay, there is a whole section of that book devoted to the Nazis in particular.

And the one thing that I want to stress about some of those thinkings that was behind the Nazi quest for some of this alchemical physics, is that one of Himmler's closest advisers ‑ so to speak his occult Guru ‑

A fellow that they actually nicknamed ''Himmler's Rasputin'' was a man named Karl proposed in some of his writings as he was examining esoteric texts that the entire system of creation comes out of two counter‑rotating systems, OK.

And I find that very interesting because in the physics literature of that period you have a fascination with certain physicists on the idea of torsion.

And the way I like to illustrate torsion to people who don't know what it is if you take a soda can and you empty the soda out of it, and then you ring it like a dishrag, what the can will do is it will spiral and fold and pleat and the ends of the can draw closer together.

Well that's what torsion does to the fabric of space and time. The other interesting thing about this man is that he believed that the physical medium itself, that space‑time itself, was an information creating medium.

Now that is a fascinating idea, because number one: it goes back to this whole concept of the ether or the physical medium that you find in hermetic or alchemical texts all the way back to ancient Egypt.

OK, the whole idea of the Philosopher's stone, in other words, of this ability to transmute one thing into another, comes out of this idea that the physical medium itself IS the Philosopher's stone, and that it creates precisely by creating information, by creating differentiations within itself.

So alchemy in a certain sense approached from this physics approach, alchemy is a kind of process of reverse engineering any given things descent from a physical medium, so the Nazis when they are looking at all of this physics begin to create or toy with the idea that the physical medium is an information‑creating medium.

Now I stress that, Jay, because it is not until the 1970s that you see writing in the open physics literature that begins to approach the fabric of spacetime in exactly that way as an information‑creating medium.

And incidentally, it's the Soviets [laughs] that are the ones that kind of pick up on all this [laughs]. So it's a very complex story, but there are all these threads that connect to each other.

Jay:  Yeah. Well, it seems strange that the Soviets with that advanced torsion physics knowledge didn't take over the world. Of course, I actually think that what may be going on is maybe the Berlin Wall didn't fall. But I don't know.

Joseph:  [laughs]

Jay:  I'm not sure what's going on. There's a lot of chess playing going on right now.

Joseph:  Oh, yeah.

Jay:  This torsion physics, of course, is the key. And of course Fulcanelli warned that you never want the mundane to ever discover these secrets because they will blow up the world. So I wonder. I know they have it, and I know they're interested in it. I know they're interested probably in what you're doing. I know they're interested in what I'm doing.

This is the apple in the Garden of Eden. You're not allowed to talk about it, and you've been told not to touch the fruit from the tree of knowledge because the apple represents the torsion physics, the pentagram of seeds inside, and how life unfolds through this information condensation that occurs inside the core of this fractal field.

Once you understand it, you can see everything in a lot different light. But unfortunately they're using them for weapons now, which is something we should all be worried about because those weapons are wiry surges.

Joseph:  Well, yeah. [laughs] Like I say, it would make a hydrogen bomb look like a firecracker.

Jay:  Yeah, yeah. Well, those in the know, know!

[laughter]

Jay:  Anyway, we're going to be back. I'm Jay Weiner, and we're talking to Dr. Joseph Farrell. What's your website quickly?

Joseph:  www.gizadeathstar.com.

Jay:  Yes. That's where I'm at right now. OK. Gizadeathstar.com. That's where he is. Get his books. They will enlighten you. I'll be right back.

The Philosopher’s Stone

With

Joseph Farrell

Part One

Jay Weidner: Hi I’m Jay Weidner. Check out our great series of DVDs at www.sacredmysteries.com. Sacred Mysteries is a mystery school for the modern age. If you are interested alchemy, astrology, sound healing, the light body, the sacred feminine, 2012, life after death and many other subjects you can find a DVD at www.sacredmysteries.com that will inform you better than any other source. Where else can you find videos with people such as Alberto Villoldo, Alex Grey, Jonathan Goldman, Nicky Scully, Rick Levine, Sharron Rose, Jay Weidner, Gregg Braden, Neale Donald Walsch and many others?

I am here with Joseph Farrell. He's the real thing. He's not your fly‑by‑night wacko. He really has looked into this, and what he's discovered is really the key that unlocks so much. For the last two years, I've been going through the ancient purana texts from south India and what we're finding is just incredible.

Joseph:  Oh, yeah.

Jay:  I think that what you have found really does echo what the most ancient of our texts are saying, that we are a much older species than we think. That we come from something grander and kind of weirder even, than even we can imagine.

But what intrigues me more than that is this kind of "dumbing down" where no one can understand the essential physics behind both time and space. I think that is what I'd like to get with you eventually. Some day I'd like to have you back on to talk about the Giza death star because it's so incredible.

Joseph:  Sure.

Jay:  I'd like to start tonight with some of your recent research into the Nazis. It seems to be the whole thing was a cover for another operation that was going on under everyone's nose. This operation was more incredible than anything else. I wonder what you have to say about that.

Joseph:  I write about the Nazi's in five books, and I'm working on a sixth one right now in that series. To summarize in a nutshell what the scenario I layout is: First of all, I believe, and make a case, that Nazi Germany's atom bomb program, Jay, I think, probably was successful.

I think they may have actually detonated an atom bomb in October of 1944, fully eight months ahead of the Manhattan project.

Now this is important because the other component of the scenario that I lay out in these books is that at the end of the war, Martin Bohrman, who more or less is really in charge of the day‑to‑day running of Nazi Germany, managed to see to it that the Soviet Bloc and the Western Allied block got roughly an equal division of the spoils.

He set up a postwar organization, an organized, extraterritorial, Nazi state that was headquartered or based largely in South America. As a component of that scenario, and tying it in with your question here, is that the most highly classified secret weapons project in Nazi Germany, a project called the Bell.

Is something that Bormann saw to it that post‑war Nazi international kept to itself, and continued to research and develop after the war? In fact, I make that case in a book called "The Nazi International."

Now the reason that project is so important, and going back to your question, is that this device was designed as a gateway technology, in my reading of the daftar to give the Nazi's access to three different things.

The first was to an energy technology, kind of a zero‑point energy technology, that would more or less free Germany from dependence on foreign energy sources and therefore from dependence on, essentially, Anglo‑America corporate elite.

The second thing they were pursuing with this technology is that they were interested in developing some sort of advanced field propulsion, or if you prefer, anti‑gravity‑type of technology.

And the third thing, of course, that they're after with this technology is that by attempting to directly engineer the local properties of space‑time itself, which is exactly what they are trying to do with this device, if you weaponize that sort of physics, if you weaponize that sort of technology, you have a technology that would make a hydrogen bomb look like a firecracker.

Thus, truly, the ultimate planet‑busting, doomsday weapon. That's another thing they are after. They classify this Bell project, actually, much higher than their atom bomb project, which, again, I argue was a successful project.

So, in terms of what the hidden agenda ‑ to answer your question ‑ really was, in terms of the Nazi party.

And what it was after during the second world war with all of it's SS‑sponsored archaeological expedition and collecting ancient texts, and so‑on and so‑forth, was to reconstruct this very sophisticated, and if you prefer, alchemical physics, that seems to be indicated in these ancient texts.

I think this is exactly the hidden agenda that you find with the Nazis.

Jay:  I completely agree. In fact, there are so many trails that I took down in my research that ended up in South America, with Nazis, that I actually started getting worried after a while. And I wasn't studying Nazi weapons ‑ I was studying Alchemy.

Joseph:   Yeah, I know.

Jay:   It was going on and on, and I started getting kind of freaked out and then I remembered Jacques Vallee's books, one of them ‑ I can't remember which one ‑ talked about how many UFO sightings ‑ over half, I think, of all UFO sightings are in South America.

Joseph:  That's right.

Jay:  If you type Argentina or Chile with UFO into Google, my God, especially if you can speak Spanish, you'll get literally hundreds of thousands of UFO sightings over the last forty or fifty years.

Joseph:  Right.

Jay:  I think it's interesting because they transferred the project over to the Andes...

Joseph:  Yes.

Jay:  I don't know, I'm wondering if they are doing it underground because there are a lot of water rumors in Peru and Chili, Argentina and there are a lot of rumors in those mountains about.

Joseph:  Oh yes, I know.

Jay:  About towns.

Joseph:  About towns and about Nazis and so on and so forth. I think I don't really speculate any of that in my book.

However, I will do so here because in the Nazi International I outline this post war project that the Nazis that is going in Argentina which is very evident that they themselves shut it down after the world press began to focus on them and they moved them it elsewhere.

And, in my opinion, probably what happened was this Nazis because of their archeological expedition before the war had become familiar with this vast tunnel system that most people weren't aware of that exists throughout that Andes Mountain in South America.

And that they simply probably moved this progress in safer and more secure places, where they continue to search which I am fairly certain that they did. So yeah, I think your speculation is right on target.

Jay:  Well you read a book about the mysterious cross or something?

Joseph:  Yeah, I read that book.

Joseph:  Oh wow, I didn't know that.

Joseph:  Yeah, he took a mysterious trip across Southern France in 1940 after the victory and he stopped at Renne Le Chateau and he stopped at Montsegur. All the nice places that you'd stop if you're into certain kind of interests and he ended in the Hendaye and he opened up a train car and walked straight across the ondie Hendai.

And the rumors were he met someone there, had a long discussion and then he met Franco actually for talks.

I don't know it is just something, it is very strange and it all goes in with this purana texts, which says that there is going to be, well, I can only describe it but they actually didn't use these words I call the mother of coronal mass ejections that is predicted to happen at the end of the copa or a time period, which they say will happen in four hundred years,

And I can tell you that the people that are doing this know full well about this text and had noted for a long, long time... hundreds of years.

Joseph:  Yes, I would tend to agree with you. In fact, book called the "Blood for Stone" in fact show how period kind is making.

The Secret Founding of America

With Nicholas Hagger

Part Four

Jay Weidner:  We're back with Nicholas Hagger. Go to www.nicholashagger.co.uk to get his lengthy resume, his many, many, books and especially the book we're talking about tonight, but they all look actually, very good. Anyway, Nicholas, it's obvious to those of us who have actually studied American history that Lincoln was one of the few people during the Civil War who actually understood what was actually going on, and furthermore if you read his letters he's very worried about the future of the United States and he suggest that there is some force that's trying to do us in. It's quite incredible, Lincoln is truly an amazing man.

Nicholas:  Absolutely, Lincoln was a very great man and he blocked the attempt on Rothschilds' part to have a central bank in the North and defeated them in the South as well, and blocked an attempt by Southern jurisdiction of Freemasonry to cause mayhem in the North. That should have put an end to Freemasonry, or at least Freemasonry's hold in America, but in fact it didn't because five days after his victory, Lincoln was murdered by John Wilkes Booth who was a Knight of the Golden Circle ‑ one of Pike's knights who chivalrously rode around in the South, the South having retained the Elizabethan Agrarian values that Gosmo brought over with a separate set of values which is very much alive I think in conversation in the south, if not in practice, but Southerners very often look back to that, certainly in my experience.

Jay:  Oh yeah.

Nicholas:  Andrew Johnson then became president and he was a Freemason, and very soon Freemasonry was very strong again, just as though the Civil War hadn't happened from the Freemasons point of view. Pike was extremely powerful and in an 1889 letter he actually admitted the secret that was only told to the 31st, 32nd, and 33rd degree Freemasons that Lucifer is God, just to quote Pike's letter, I.E. the demiurge in Gnostic thought. A kind of God that's a subordinate God. One that's in charge of the world.

Jay:  A false God.

Nicholas:  Second tier, yes. According to Pike, Lucifer is the God of Freemasonry and the lower echelon told this: that once you get to a certain position then you are. Of course, in the English Freemasonry there are only three degrees, not 31st, 32nd, 33rd degrees, so this question doesn't really apply. There is, if you think about it, Lucifer, the world, the flesh, and the devil. Freemasons have, perhaps, a different perspective. Also, going back to Ancient Egypt and some of the ancient religions including Gnosticism. Perhaps seeing Lucifer as a representative of a Gnostic demiurge it may have as much to do with Manicheanism ‑ the Manichean religion or dualism between light and dark.

What I'm trying to say is by the end of the Civil War, Freemasonry was really strong again and so by the time we get to the 20th Century as you were saying earlier, yes, we've got a Freemasonic state. Just as in Washington's day the president is very often a Freemason. In my book I've listed all of the presidents who've been Masons. They don't include Eisenhower. They don't include Reagan who was an honorary Scottish Rite Mason but not really deeply involved.

It doesn't include the Bushes. They, as is well known, were affiliated to Skull and Bones at Yale. It was an offshoot of the German Illuminati established at Yale in 1833. The Bushes were inducted in 1948 and 1968. That doesn't really count as freemasonry and this is basically a college thing and all sorts of people do things at college that can be forgiven. This is really a college tradition, a very strong college tradition and I don't think it should be seen as being too Freemasonic.

The question arises, "What about President Obama?" and my information is that he's allegedly a 32nd degree Prince Hall Freemason and a member of the Royal Arch Masons and of the Knights Templars. So it's still strong. That's the point I'm making.

Jay:  And Bill Clinton was a mason.

Nicholas:  The Freemasonic state in our time has been interlocked with the syndicate, this network of families, dynastic network of ruling elite families. A syndicate is, in the dictionary, is a combination of individuals or commercial firms to promote some common interest. This group of families, common interest is commercial gain and creating a federal world gain, federalism comes through. The Freemasonic federalism was being applied to the world and United States of the world based on Freemasonic federalism in which the United States will just be on the same footing as all the other ingredients in the world so this is not US supremacy. This is the opposite of it, the US losing its supremacy.

There are two main families in this syndicate and, as is well known, and they're the Rothschilds who represent a commercial drive associated with their 19th Century financial dominance and support for imperialism. And the Rockefellers, their protegees who they started off by lending money to in the 19th Century and the Rockefellers grew and arguably grew more powerful than the Rothschilds.

And they, the Rockefellers, represent the commercial drive associated with their 20th Century acquisition of oil and shaping of events through revolutions. And these two families between them have been responsible for many of the major events in the 20th Century that we have difficulty in explaining.

For example, the Rockefellers were behind the Russian revolution. There were actually four Russian revolutions. It's the 1985 one of Trotsky's and that was Rockefeller backed. Trotsky was living on Rockefeller property before he went in. Kaminski's 1917 one which was Rothschild backed, Lenin's which was Rockefeller backed, and then Stalin's in 1923 which was Rockefeller backed. In fact, in 1925, Rockefellers backed Stalin by buying half the Soviet Union's oil on a regular basis in return for something for Stalin's five year plan. They also backed Hitler in the '30's, before the second World War, though various banks.

All of this is on the public record, and there's a lot of evidence to this effect. It's not just me saying it. The Soviet state was a Masonic state, which is interesting, run by the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite in Russia, called the Council of the Elders.

Incredibly, in 1964, there's evidence that Khrushchev was dismissed by David Rockefeller for failing to prevent the Chinese threat to Rockefeller's oil interests in China. The very fact that an American can go and dismiss the Russia president because of this Masonic structure is amazing. Of course, shortly afterwards, Rockefellers found oil off Vietnam and needed to unicide Vietnam to get the oil out, which took about ten years before there was a unicide Vietnam.

The best I mention, but there's another one, which is the New World Order, which links in and interlocks with what I've just been describing. The New World Order really began with Woodrow Wilson's reference to a new world in his 14 points speech in 1918. It was taken up later on by Nelson Rockefeller in the '60's and of course the Bushes in the 1990's at the time of the Gulf War.

What is the New World Order doing? Basically, trying to achieve a federal war based on pre Masonic federalism that's run to the convenience of the syndicate. In other words, they're busy trying to corner the world's resources, especially gas and oil, via network of oil and gas pipelines in western Asia, including the Caspian and Afghanistan and Iraq, with the trans‑Afghan pipeline and the pipeline from Kirkuk to Haifa, for example. After this all, to combine commercial activity with a Freemasonic united states of the world, that would obliterate all nation states, including the USA, and be federal.

Is that the only way? We'd like to conclude by saying, "No," because the idea of a world government is an excellent one if it's in the right hands, because war, disease, famine, could all be eliminated with the right planning, but in the wrong hands, where it's run by self interested elite who are thinking of their own profits, as happened in Russia, where all the gas and oil natural resources were bought up back in 1996 for one tenth of their market value by a combination of Chernomyrdin, the Russian political leader, and the Rockefeller banks, and others.

It should be possible to have a brilliant world run by, as it were, a good New World Order, which is a world state.

Jay:  With that in mind, we're going to have to stop for the night, but that's a great way to end it. I agree with you, there is a good New...

Nicholas:  Can I just watch out for my next book, "The World Government," which is on this, and also the sequel to the one we've been discussing, which is also on this very subject.

The Secret Founding of America

 With Nicholas Hagger

 Part Three

Jay Weidner:  If you want to get a great DVD on the secret history of the world check out our new film with John Lash called Sophia Returning: The Path to Planetary Tantra. Also when you go to www.sacredmysteries.com check out our other new film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip.

We're talking to Nicholas Hagger, go to his Website, www.nicholashagger.co.uk. This guy is incredible. I can't wait to read "The Syndicate" and "The Secret History of the West",,which I ordered today. Which sounds like a lot of fun to read and let's get back. There's something I really want to touch on, because I don't want to lose track of this one thing. Which is I think the most important discovery that you made. Which is this idea that the Freemasons, while paying lip service to state's rights here in the United States, actually always were the backers of federalism. Is that not true?

Nicholas:  Yes, Federalism came out of Anderson's Constitutions and of course, it went into the Constitution that Washington organized when he chaired the Constitutional Convention. So that may be Free Masonry's biggest impact on America. George Washington was both a Rosicrucian Mason and a Templar Mason, that was 1752 and 1768. He was also a Grand Master of the Templar founding lodge number 22 in Virginia by the time he was elected. The question really becomes now, to what extent was Freemasonry behind what happened with the Constitution? Or to what extent was Washington acting on his own? Without Freemasonry behind him. Was it deliberate on the part of Freemasonry? Or in fact, was there a Freemasonic coup on the 13 Colonies? If one wants to carry it far enough. Or was it just a course that Washington took, having found Federalism in Anderson's Constitutions? And thought, well this is a method I'll apply to the State Cross that I'm doing now.

In fact, the whole question of Washington coming out of obscurity and being President raises the question of whether he was the farmer as presented. In other words, Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus who, in 458 BC, reluctantly gave up his Roman plow to defeat the Aequians and then returned to his farm. Was Washington like that? A reluctant President? Or was he carrying out the instructions of Freemasonry to make a Federal system of the 13 Colonies and to front it.

One of the answers may be in the architectural symbolism in Washington DC, which is very Freemasonic. Washington, George Washington, choose a marshy swamp in 1790 and asked Pierre Charles L'Enfant, a Templar Mason, to design a new city. It was laid out around Freemasonic symbols; compass, square, ruler, pentagram, pentagon, octagon.

The whole question of the Capital as well. George Washington laid the foundation stone of the Capital in a Masonic ceremony in 1793 and of course, eventually had a Masonic funeral. So if you put all that together it could be, there is a case to argue, that Washington was acting in conjunction with Freemasonry and not just off his own back.

But by this time Freemasonry was now strong. Under the constitution the State was independent from the church. It was a secular State, with the State shuffling around as in a market place. The Great Awakening of the 1740's that thrust up Evangelical Protestantism, which had really overtaken the Catholics, the Anglicans and the Puritans as the early planting. But Freemasonry had secularized the State, through the Constitution.

So America now had a Freemasonic State, with a Free Masonic federal idea. Many of the officials of the State were Freemasons. For example, the offices of Presidents and Vice Presidents, both of whom are sworn in on a Masonic Bibles. State Governors. US Senators, and Congressmen. Military and Judiciary. So, it was a pretty Masonic State.

Jay:  It seems now in light of your findings that federalism was designed so that a small group of people could basically rule the country under the guise of a democracy or republic.

Nicholas:  It hasn't been conclusively proven but it's something that perhaps needs to be thought about. I think that the founding fathers were all very honorable and very upright men who generally thought that what they were doing was right. At that particular time land values were plunging, the fate of the economy was not good, and there could be economic arguments for what they were doing, but there is also the scenario that the Freemasonic lodges had got together and had had a kind of coup d'Ètat on the colonies and put this group of men to do their bidding, and in a way they were very upright and honorable men nevertheless there was this background ‑ this other dimension that was perhaps coloring their decisions.

Jay:  Yeah, and let's face it, the Freemasons had central organizing principals that other groups just didn't have. All you really need is that and you have a serious advantage over other groups that may not be as organized, and have certain principals, and I think that...

Nicholas:  They were very well organized, that's true, they were probably more organization in the lodges than anywhere else at that particular time.

Jay:  Yeah, and actually in the chaos of America today, they still may be the most organized because not many things are organized in this country right now, so it makes you wonder.

Nicholas:  It could well be. Freemasonry was behind the Civil War, and emerged stronger from the Civil War than before. In fact, it was defeated during the Civil War because Freemasonry was in the south under Pike. Lincoln opposed Freemasonry and was assassinated by Booth. In fact we need to refer to the Rothschilds here because they wanted a central bank during the Civil War and they funded both the North and the South, Lionel Rothschild who was based in London funded the North, and James Rothschild who was based in Paris funded the South.

Jay:  Isn't that nice?

Nicholas:  Together with Rothschilds', and Lincoln defeated them and blocked them and didn't allow them to have the central bank.

Secret Founding of America

With

Nicholas Hagger

Part Two

I'm Jay Weidner. Please go to our site www.sacredmysteries.com and check out all of our great DVD’s featured there. Everything from subjects on 2012, alchemy, healing and Qi-Gong.

We're talking to Nicholas Hagger. You can go to his web site at www.nicholashagger.co.uk. Check out his site. He's got a very dramatic resume and he's really a very good writer, too. I think I read the book in about six hours. I was completely dumbstruck.

So, they gained a political foothold early on, and by the Boston Tea Party, they had become organized and were getting ready to fight the British. Now there's one other thing I wanted to ask you. Weren't most of the people in the British military also Freemasons?Were not most of the soldiers and officers in the British military also Freemasons?

Nicholas:  Yes they were. There were different branches. In fact, there's a two page map in the book which shows all the various charts, which shows all the various branches of Freemasonry, and the British officers would have been English masons rather than the French Templars by and large, and there would be lodges in my understanding at the time of the Boston Tea Party which would be almost exclusively for Americans. Which would give them the secrecy and give them the means to meet and discuss private plans. There would be certain occasions where they would meet up with the British.

Jay:  All right, so you document very well the Freemasonic influences on the revolution. You also, I think you pretty much nail it that Benjamin Franklin actually knew Adam Weishaupt, right?

Nicholas:  Adam Weishaupt?

Jay:  Weishaupt? Yeah. The founder of the...

Nicholas:  Absolutely. In fact, the key figure is Franklin in all of this. Benjamin Franklin, the founding father.

Jay:  Yes, let's go into that.

Nicholas:  It was his contact with Adam Weishaupt which really brought the Great Seal to America. I think you have to see this in a slightly larger context. A very important book was written in 1723, "Anderson's Constitutions" which set down in writing the Grand Lodge system, which was federal, and that was in English Rosicrucian Freemasonry. So federalism was really a Freemasonic idea, and this isn't really widely understood. So Rosicrucianism grew out of Bacon's Rosy Cross. That was a branch of Freemasonry that was probably associated with the Rosicrucian Manifestos of 1614, which may have been written by Bacon. Bacon is a very important figure in Freemasonry. The founding father, Benjamin Franklin, became a British Rosicrucian freemason in 1731 and he went to London and stayed in England and France from I think it was about 1757 to 1762, and again from 1764 to 1775, and he sent Tom Paine to America and then returned to Philadelphia and printed Paine's "Common Sense" in January 1776, which brought America to the verge of independence.

But Franklin was involved in all freemasonry's branches, and just shortly afterwards on the first of May in 1776 the German Illuminate was founded by Adam Weishaupt as you were saying, and was funded by Mayor Amschel Rothschild, who was of course, the founder of the Rothschild Dynasty. Two months later, on the fourth of July, 1776, when the Declaration of Independence was read, Franklin Jefferson Adams, was appointed to design the great seal for the US As they cast around for ideas, and in December 1776 Franklin was sent to Paris to seek help for the commoners. He met the Illuminati and probably branched out himself. It hasn't been conclusively proven, but it may well be that he did.

He was shown the seal, the Illuminati seal, and which coincided with the founding of the Illuminati in May, and he returned with the idea of making the Illuminati seal the American seal. To discharge the obligation that he'd been given in July. And the Illuminati seal had a 13 layered pyramid with its capstone missing and the all seeing eye of Osiris and Sion. And 13 letters and "annuit coeptis" in Latin, which means "announcing the birth". Suggests the birth of a new Atlantis and the 13, perhaps suggesting the thirteenth of October, 1307, when Templarism was suppressed. Whenever 13 appears, on the Confederate flag as well, there's suggestion around.

So there were meetings, and eventually this seal was adopted as America's great seal in 1782. Meanwhile in 1777, Weishaupt had become a Freemason and he could see he was going to be suppressed in Bavaria, or sense that he was going to be suppressed, and emerged the Illuminati and Freemasonry in 1778. And so he hid the Illuminati within Freemasons.

That besides being an English Rosicrucian Freemason, and also a member of the Illuminati. Franklin was also a Templar Mason, he did a during the 1770's. And of course, George Washington was a Rosicrucian Mason in the 1783.

The Secret Founding of America

With Nicholas Hagger

Part One

Jay Weidner:  Hi I’m Jay Weidner and thanks for joining us. Ininity: The Ultimate Trip is now available at www.sacredmysteries.com as is our new three part Qi-Gong DVD series with pedram Shojai called The Alchemy of Qi Gong, which is really the most comprehensive series on the subject ever done. Also we have Terence’ McKenna’s last film The Alchemical Dream plus the two films from our 2012 series: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Lastly go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my articles that are up there for free.

My guest is someone I have wanted to talk to for a long time. His name is Nicholas Hagger. You can go to www.nicholashagger.co.uk. He is a true intellectual scholar and has written so many books and his bio is so huge that I don't even know where to begin. What a great honor to be talking to you Nicholas Hagger, how are you?

Nicholas Hagger:  Very well thank you. Nice to be with you, Jay.

Jay:  Well, I tell you what, there's a lot of conspiracies running around these days and a lot of misinformation out there. When I got your book, "The Secret Founding of America" and I saw who you were I realized that for once I was going to be reading a historical book about the Freemasons that wasn't written by an amateur I was just so blown away by your book. It was incredible. Anyway, let's start at the beginning., because you start at the beginning, the beginning of America with the families that came here from England, the Pilgrims. It's fascinating how you show them evolving into places of power within America. So let's start there. Let's start at the beginning. So the Pilgrims, what happened?

Nicholas:  OK, with the planting. It's quite a story.

Jay:  It is.

Nicholas:  The first planters of a colony in America at one time thought to be the Separatists who arrived on the Mayflower in 1620, but in fact they were the Catholic Spanish who were first, who followed in the south and had their settlement in 1565 for French in Fort Caroline. But it's the first English speaking settlement, which is the one we're really interested in, was the Anglican one at Jamestown. Of course Jamestown was thought to be mythical until it was discovered by the archeologist Bill Kelso, who I got to know quite well. He discovered it in 1994. A bit like Schliemann discovering Troy. This voyage to Jamestown seems to be Anglican but it may actually have brought Freemasonry to the new world. This is what's not widely known.

The voyage was put together by Bartholomew Gosnold in Oxley Hall in Sussex England, which I actually owned for seven years. He funded the voyage through his wife's cousin. And recruited the settlers and the crew. Having done all the hard work he has told three weeks before they were due to leave in December of 1606, "well thanks very much for doing all that, but actually, politically we need a satellite with as special as the Prime Minister and so Admiral Newport's going to be in charge and you're number two." So that was the basis that the voyage happened on.

It had a bad start. It was freezing cold. There was snow. There was no wind for about six weeks. The three ships were becalmed off the English coast. One of those whom Gosnold has recruited, John Smith, complained about the delay. He was put in the hold under arrest with two others and he was nearly hanged actually when they reached Nebbish. So the settlers eventually reached the new World and they chose swampy Jamestown, the wrong place. Swamp fever rife and too many native Indians, Native Americans, within reach. They were soon under attack from the native Americans. Smith was let out of the hold to help defend the settlement.

Then disease took it's toll and malnutrition. Gosnold and twelve others died in 1607. Smith came through to eventually become leader. He left Virginia in for good in 1609. In 1624 he wrote an account of his time there, a general history, admitting that Gosnold was the voyage's prime mover. But talking up his own role in the settlement, so well in fact that it's Smith's statue that stands in Jamestown today, and not Gosnold's.

But there was something odd about the Jamestown settlement. There was different factions among the Jamestown settlers. There were arguments and fights and control issues. These have never been satisfactorily explained. There is some evidence that Smith was a Freemason, which would explain some of this factionalism. We need to digress really just to think about the origin of Freemasonry because of course it's very, very ancient. It goes back to what, 15th Century B.C. in Egypt?

Jay:  It does, yes.

Nicholas:  There are certainly 10th Century B.C. with the Templar Sullivan.

Jay:  Yes.

Nicholas:  I think the English Freemasonry was really founded by Sir Frances Bacon, the Elizabethan Courtier, in 1579 as an account for the philosophical secret society that would guard the secret knowledge of the ages, including the art of sexual knowledge, and to do Solomon's Temple and how to build things. What the ancients knew. Bacon didn't just make this up. He was a young man. He was working in France and he was working in Navarre. He got the symbolism from the Catalistic Jews, I think, in Navarre when he was in France. So this was not something that Bacon made up, this was a body of knowledge that he received.

Smith had links with Bacon, who happened actually to be Gosoald cousin. There's a pamphlet by George Tudhope, "Freemasonry Came To America With Captain John Smith in 1607." The very fact that that pamphlet's written suggests that there is a certain amount of evidence that Smith was a Freemason.

Bacon had a secret society, as I was saying just now, and this helped with a number of publications that promoted Protestantism and Imperialism against Catholic's fate. Bacon's secret society seems to have brought out Jake's account of his voyage, or certainly the illustrations. And the "King James Bible," and Sir Walter Raleigh's "History of the World," and Smith's own book, the 1624 one. Shakespeare's first "Polio," and Bacon's own "New Atlantis."

The interesting thing is the colophons, that's the ornamental decorations on the top of the pages and sometimes at the bottom of the pages at this particular time, are all similar. One of them was an AA design. AA stands for Athena, referring to Bacon's order of the Night's of the Helmet, which he founded in 1586.

So there are clues that Bacon was behind all of these publications, which were done presumably to promote British expansion at the time. So, among the Anglicans who founded Jamestown, and America, there may have been a Free Mason, Smith. Which may have brought Freemasonry to America early. But actually Freemasonry has another branch in French Templarism. Because when the Templars, who were founded in the 12th Century, I think it was 1118, Bernard to go and escort Pilgrims in the Middle East. The Templars expanded, and of course that had things to do with banking, was suppressed.

From the 13th of October in 1307 they were banned, and their leader, Damla, was burned at the stake in 1314 and the Templars opted off and they fled to Scotland and became Freemasonic. The Stewart Kings of Scotland became Templars, including James the Sixth of Scotland, who later become James the First in England in 1603. And of course, the name Jamestown comes from James' town. So, perhaps there was a Templar influence on that voyage brought by the King himself.

So from two angles you've got the Baconian Freemasonry, possibly Smith. And you've got the Templar Freemasonry via James the First stumbling into America at quiet an early age. Certainly the Templars were in America by 1720. Because the Stewart's were exiled to France, James the Second's son and his descendents. In 1746 the Scottish Right, which they brought from Scotland to France, went on to America.

So the Templars were well established by the time of the Boston Tea Party of 1773, when 200 Templar Masons disguised as Mohawk Indians, threw tea into Boston Harbor. So that was very much a Freemasonic act. Why did people become Freemasons at that time? I think it was a social dimension to it. I think you went along and had a chat with your friends.

But even more important than that there was a revolutionary dimension to it. If you wanted to get the British out, here was a golden opportunity to have meetings behind closed doors in the lodges, where the British wouldn't listen and you could ferment your plots there, like for example, the Boston Tea Party.

Jay:  Very interesting. And this organization of course, because it was organized, it gained a quick foothold politically here. We're talking to Nicholas Hagger. His incredible book, "The Secret Founding of America." You must read it. It is unbelievable.

Sinister Forces

With Peter Levenda

Part Four

Jay Weidner: and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and The Alchemy of Qi Gong with pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with Terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

Jay:  We're back. I don't want to waste any time here. I don't always have Peter Levenda on the line, so let's get right to it. So, Peter, now where were we? This was very interesting. So, this occult, the CIA is dabbling in the occult, and they are using techniques and things. And they really don't know what they are doing, causing a lot of damage. I don't think people really even understand the amount of damage that was caused. I wonder now about all those people in the late '70s, wandering around the streets of America, speaking to themselves, if they weren't some kind of casualty of some of these experiments, actually.

Peter:  Well, that was one of the points I was trying to make in "Sinister Forces" that what we did is we created an army of zombies, really, of people that were prisoners in some cases, violent offenders in prison, that we gave massive doses of LSD to, for instance, that we submitted to all sorts of bizarre experimentations. People took acid in the '60s for spiritual reasons. I mean, they were taking hallucinogens. They were taking like peyote, psilocybin, mescaline. They were trying to obtain altered states of consciousness, and the idea was to open their minds and to become spiritually aware but not everybody was. Sometimes, a lot of people were taking it for recreational purposes, if you can imagine taking LSD for recreational purposes. But anyway, so that was the intent, right?

Turn on, tune in, drop out. This was the intention of it, and yet these same chemicals, or the natural version such as the mushrooms and the peyote, were used in these experimentations on prisoners, on prostitutes without their knowledge, on children in some cases, in mental institutions for children.

So, this is all documented and none of the stuff we're discussing here is speculation. It's all based on primary sources, on real documents, declassified stuff from the Army and from CIA and from the FBI.

So, what you have is a massive government program that used the same tool as Shamans have been using for centuries, if not millennia, to open the doorways of the mind to enable a human being to contact supernatural forces or have spiritual experiences.

These same substances and these same techniques and the same methods are being used to create the perfect assassin‑‑the so‑called Manchurian Candidate kind of assassin. We're weaponizing spirituality, and we did this in the years right after the end of World War II. And this to me is what is so astonishing, that no one really picks up on this. [laughs]

The government programs were looked down upon, of course. And they said, "Well, that's just too bad. It was an abuse of power" and all of this. But there was much more to it than that. People who are involved in spiritual quests should realize that the government itself was involved without even knowing it in a spiritual quest, and they bungled it because there were no safeguards in place.

There was no context for the experiences. So this to me is frightening. So what did we create? Who's out there? [laughs] I sometimes wonder if some of the far more famous serial killers were products of this process.

Charles Manson. Not really a serial killer, but Charles Manson does come to mind as one of these characters. Maybe Henry Lee Lucas and a few others‑‑people who had spent time in the military or at the prisons where these experiments were taking place. And they then came out and started committing horrible crimes. I'm wondering what the connections might be.

Jay:  Oh, I think it makes good sense to wonder about those connections. May Russell used to say back in the late seventies that the Son of Sam murders was a final test for an assassin school. Could you calmly kill two people in the front seat of their car police‑style firing six times from your 44 magnum? And we thought, "Oh, you're crazy, May. That's the craziest thing we ever heard." But then you started looking at her evidence. One guy was blond, and another guy had black hair and another assassin had red hair. And it's like hmm. You know? Maybe.

Peter:  Well, I devoted a whole chapter in "Sinister Forces, " or actually a number of chapters spread out, on the Son of Sam case because I lived at New York during the time. I was connected to some of the events peripherally. And we all knew back in the late '70s in New York that this was not the work of one person. We knew it was the work of a group. And then later, of course, Berkowitz confessed to this. Even after he confessed to all of the crimes, et cetera, et cetera, he's in jail for life. He's never getting out. He knows that. So now he's coming clean. And he has talked about the people he was involved with. He has identified the murders he did commit because he did commit some of the murders, and he identified the murders he did not commit.

And as we were going through it‑‑the Son of Sam killings in New York‑‑I was painstakingly trying to figure out the calendar they were using. And I noticed, as I mentioned in "Sinister Forces," there was a kind of an occult calendar in effect. Murders being committed during certain periods of waning and waxing moons, et cetera, near pagan holidays, so on and so forth.

There was a cult‑like connection to what was taking place. Now the Son of Sam case was reopened. It was reopened some years ago because all the new evidence came out and suggested very strongly that more than one person was involved.

So yeah. [laughs] The connection between serial murder, our intelligence, our bungled attempts at creating assassins, spiritual initiations, this abuse of shaman technology, if you will. All of this is all together in one very messy cauldron‑‑one very messy witch's brew here‑‑of evil things, evil intentions, and unforeseen consequences, which turned out to be just as evil.

Jay:  And it's like it's almost contagious. It's now gone beyond the seed, and it's a contagion. And it's spreading into the bowels of culture. It's astonishing to see kids today really think vampires are cool. I find it stunning because when I was young, I loved vampire movies but I never thought they were cool.

Peter:  [laughs] Exactly.

Jay:  They scared the living daylights out of me. [laughs] Go ahead.

Peter:  No, I was going to say exactly. As I mentioned, you were deconstructing "The Shining." We should start deconstructing all the movies that have come out in the last 30 years or so on the occult and how it's been re‑engineered in a sense‑‑re‑imagined‑‑in so many different ways. We pooh‑pooh the occult from a scientific point of view, many people, but at the same time they're embracing it on the other hand. They're seeing it as cool. They're seeing it as sophisticated in some cases. Or they're...

Jay:  They have no idea what they're messing with.

Peter:  Right.

Jay:  They really don't, and this is what worries me. And you're right. I actually do deconstruct movies. It's like my hobby. I don't usually write it down. But I can pretty much tell you who's made the film, what their agenda was, what they're into. You know what I mean? It's getting to that point now where I can pretty much tell. And I'll tell you something. Kubrick is onto the same thing that you're onto. I haven't figured how to break this one yet, but Kubrick has films within films. And in "The Shining," the film within the film that no one has ever seen is about these sinister forces. And he literally builds them into the set and into the scenery, and it's quite astonishing actually.

He's basically saying that these forces have taken over this family‑‑these unknown forces that are all around us. And if you allow them in, then they'll take you over and it's incredible. I don't know how to get it down on paper yet, but I'm working on it. Anyway.

Peter:  Well, the point I make in the last volume of "Sinister Forces" is that America itself is a kind of haunted house.

Jay:  It is.

Peter:  We're living with ghosts.

Jay:  Yes.

Peter:  We don't know it, but we're surrounded by them. We're just as ancient a civilization here as you would find in Egypt or anywhere in Europe or in Asia. There were people living here for thousands of years before. We don't know who they were or what they were doing. We built our cities on top of them, and that's just the beginning. Then there's the other ghosts we've created along the way. So, there are sinister forces. We are surrounded by them. We've been blind to them because of our materialism and our materialist approach to things, which we're now paying for, [laughs] you know?

Jay:  I agree. I'm obsessed with that subject. I was just talking to my wife today about where we live. Only 170 years have white people lived here in Southern Oregon, and we have no idea what was going on here before or what was sacred and what isn't sacred. And this is all over the country, too.

Peter:  Absolutely. [Indistinct]

Jay:  We have no idea. There's no connection to the land. There's no soil‑to‑soul relationship in America.

Peter:  No, we don't as Americans. We don't have that. We're probably unique among countries with that total disconnection from [laughs] our physical environment.

Jay:  And if you're spiritually literate, you know how important it is to have these places that were imbued with centuries of worship and sacred activity. I think you pointed out we might be building our prisons on sacred ground and building our churches on places that maybe where the evil was. We don't know what we're doing. We're just floundering around in the dark here.

Peter:  Well, exactly. And we have built our prisons on sacred ground. Moundsville, West Virginia comes to mind right away. We built a prison there where we famously kept Squeaky Fromme, one of the Manson followers‑‑the one who tried to kill Gerald Ford. So we built a prison there. We build prisons in Ohio on top of Indian burial mounds. I find it interesting that in "The Shining" the hotel was supposedly built on an Indian burial site.

Jay:  Yup.

Peter:  That was part of the Stephen King story. So you have this idea there was an Indian burial ground there underneath the Overlook Hotel. In the film "Poltergeist" they built their home‑‑their suburban tracts‑‑on Indian burial ground. I mean there's this idea that's there. It's in the back of our minds, where we know there's something wrong. We know it. We just don't know how to deal with it. [Music begins]

Jay:  That's right, and we're haunted by the ghosts of an ancient civilization. We're standing on their bones. Quite incredible. Hey, Peter! I'd like to really have you back. We've really just scratched the surface of this. And I'd also want to talk to you next time about your book, "Stairway to Heaven." I'm really a big fan of Chinese alchemy and Daoism and just love that stuff.

Sinister Forces

With Peter Levenda

Part Three

Jay Weidner: and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and The Alchemy of Qi Gong with pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

Jay:  We're back, talking to Peter Levenda, and boy Peter, I've got to tell you, when I was writing my book on alchemy, the number of synchronicities, it was almost ludicrous after awhile. It felt like I was in a Salvatore Dali painting and everything had just turned into rubber watches that were melting on cliffs and, quite unbelievable actually, really to this day don't know what to make of it at all, honestly.

Peter:  Well, to me it's always an indication that you're on the right track. When these coincidences start to pile up, you've obviously tapped into the mother load of whatever it is you're working on. On some level, when the universe starts to organize itself around you that way and to present you with the tools that you need. Obviously, as I say, you're on the right track, whatever that track may happen to be. You may not realize it for awhile, but the coincidences, the synchronicities themselves, that's the evidenceJay to me. I view them as the evidence of darker‑‑not darker, necessarily‑‑but deeper forces that are at work, and they manifest as these synchronicities.

Jay:  You know, John Lash is a friend of mine. He wrote a book called "Not in His Image" which is a very good book. He talks about the Gnostic beliefs of these creatures that they call the Archons. When I read his book, I was recalling your work and realizing that, maybe, that was the best succinct explanation for what you're finding. Do you know this concept of the Archons at all?

Peter:  Of course, yes. I've been doing a lot of research in Gnosticism in the last five or six years for other work that I've been involved with. One of my other books went into that a little bit, "Stairway to Heaven", for instance.

Jay:  I saw that. I want to get that book. It looks like a great book. I just saw it. I haven't read it yet.

Peter:  It's not political [laughs] . It veers right off the politics into the‑‑not necessarily the occult‑‑but the esoteric anyway. So, to me all of this is all of the same book. I mean, "Unholy Alliance", "Sinister Forces", "Stairway to Heaven", all of it. They're all just chapters in one big book, in a sense what's in my head that I'm trying to write. I don't see any difference between the purely spiritual esoteric aspect and the gross or mundane political things that I write about in "Sinister Forces".

Jay:  I don't either.

Peter:  What I tried to show is that there was a spiritual force at work, and the Archons are a good way of describing what these spiritual forces might be.

Jay:  So, what are these Archons? What are they here for? Why are they screwing with us?

Peter:  Well, you may recall that the original Gnostic idea of Genesis, if we are to believe the Gnostic version of it, is that the creator of the world was not God. The creator of the world was what they called the demiurge, the demiourgos, which was a creature of its own; I think, kind of a monstrous entity that created the world. So, the Gnostics God in the story of Genesis is represented by the serpent. They do a complete twist on this. To the Gnostics, the earth itself, the materialism was evil, and only pure spirituality was good. So, it's this kind of Manichean idea of the forces of light versus darkness. So, the Archons might be what Jesus said in the gospel, referring to Satan as the king of this world. Maybe, that's a Gnostic reference. Maybe, the Archons are the rulers of this world in a sense, and that's why we come across them as, what I call, sinister forces because they can't be manipulated.

I believe that our own intelligence agencies, as an example, at one point in the 1950s, the 1960s when they tried to experiment on the human mind and they tried to use drugs, hypnosis, behavior modification, all of these various things, they were in our field. They were in our business, in a sense. They were in our house.

What they were doing was committing a kind of spiritual initiation on innocent victims, people who had no idea what was going on which meant that they had no spiritual training. They had no spiritual protection against what was taking place.

If we do believe in initiation, then when we take our beliefs about initiation, how it works, the technology of it and apply it towards what the CIA was doing, for instance, with MK‑Ultra, with Artichoke and Bluebird and all the other programs they were running, Operation Ofmun and all the others, we can see that they had the necessary elements of spiritual initiation in place. They were using these things, but they were using them to weaponize them, and that's what, to me, caused all the problems.

I think that right at the end of World War II we had a chance to go in one direction or the other. And when we started importing the Nazi scientists and we started saying the ends justifies the means I think at that point we kind of lost our way, and we're still struggling to get back. We were abusing a spiritual process in my point of view.

Jay:  I completely agree. Is it possible that we through those spiritual crimes, so to speak; is it possible they let something in accidentally?

Peter:  Well, they did it on a localized level, for sure. They did it on the level of the hundreds and thousands of people that they worked this "magic" on.

Jay:  That might be enough, actually.

Peter:  Well, right, you know. And who knows? We could look at an analog with the atomic explosions at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for instance, as being magical experiments, at least, having a spiritual analog, an occult analog, perhaps. I remember years ago someone had shown me a copy of the Catholic Missal, the Catholic prayer book that you use for the services during the week and on Sunday. There was a diagram on one page that blew me away. This missal had been published in the 1950s, and there was a picture of a mushroom cloud. This is in a Catholic prayer book, and underneath it in Latin was "ecce qui tollis peccata mundi" which translated means the whole key who takes away the sins of the world.

Jay:  Wow.

Peter:  And that juxtaposition of that mushroom cloud with that famous prayer that is said in Catholic churches daily was stunning, this idea that the atomic bomb was taking away the sins of the world. So, there was a belief at some point among some people that this was, not just a scientific thing, not just a military weapon that existed in its own world but that there were ramifications. There were connections to spiritual processes that were involved. So, it's possible that we did commit some sins. It's possible that we did let something in and that we have to deal with this now in a constructive way. I think the popularity of films that are coming out now‑‑I know you do a lot of work on film, and I read your deconstruction of "The Shining." I thought it just blew me away. It was terrific.

Jay:  Thank you.

Peter:  There's a film coming out now, "Men Who Stare At Goats" based on a true story, based on the controlled remote viewing that was taking place in the military, and it's become a comedy. They turned it into what appears to be a comedy.

Jay:  That's hilarious.

Peter:  Well, it's the only way to deal with it, I guess, so that's what we have to figure out. There has to be a more constructive way of dealing with this.

Jay:  Well, I'm looking forward to seeing that film, actually. I read the original thing it was based on. We're going to be right back. We're talking to Peter Levenda. I'm Jay Weidner and you're listening to the Smoke and Mirrors Radio Hour. You can see my deconstruction of "The Shining" at JayWeidner.com and, believe me, that thing is causing some controversy.

Sinister Forces

With Peter Levenda

Part Two

Jay Weidner: and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and The Alchemy of Qi Gong with pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

And we're back, talking to Peter Levenda, I don't want to waste much time here. OK Peter, let's get back to the raid and I've known for a long time that they've bought up both sides of the Andes, Argentina and Chile, just from my travels. Which I always thought was a very clever little plan, and so what happened? He escaped through some system or underground or what?

Peter:  Well right, they had built underground tunnels in the first place when they developed the colony. What they did was they had torture and interrogation centers built there to interrogate political prisoners when Pinochet took over which was on September 11th, 1973. So they brought hard‑core prisoners up there, political prisoners, people they really wanted to break. And they had developed a series of underground interrogation cells. And these cells could be monitored remotely. Which means that the person committing the interrogation and the torture could be in a separate room and electronically was able to torture prisoners at a distance using an electrical system.

Jay:  Wow.

Peter:  So he could actually torture several people at once using the electrical systems that were developed, by the way, by a man called Michael Vernon Townley, who was the son of the Ford Motor Company executive in Chile at the time. He was very pro‑Nazi, the son was, very pro‑fascist, pro‑Nazi, very anti Salvador Allende who was their democratically elected president. So Townley invented this whole system, he had a flare for electronics and developed this and it was all done underground. When the raid took place, they found not only these torture cells, they also found the fact that the Germans at the estate were burying everything underground, including automobiles, including files and dossiers on people, including weapons. They had this fascination for building these underground tunnels and for putting everything under ground.

So when the raid actually took place at the colony, as I said, it was a massive military incursion, the leader of the group, used the underground tunnels as a way to get out. Got out on the other side of the Argentine border, because the colony is up in the mountains right close enough to the Argentine border to make that accessible, jumped over the border and was there for years in Argentina before he was finally located and brought back to stand trial in Chile. Which happened about, I think, about three years ago.

So he's been in Chile, he's still alive, Pinochet died, but Schaeffer is still alive. He was indicted for all sorts of human rights abuses. There are a lot of other possible charges that can be brought against him. They're still going through the documents they found at the colony, which probably includes a photocopy of my passport, by the way, because they took that away from me when I was there.

So I'm very eager to find out what's in the documents, but the Supreme Court has sealed, the Supreme Court of Chile has sealed all those documents and they say they're not going to let anybody see what's in there. So we're all very frustrated by this because I believe there's going to be evidence there of the involvement of other countries, in Colonia Dignidad, in torture interrogation cells, in the creation of this underground apparatus and everything else, so, we all want to know what's in those documents...

Jay:  Yeah.

Peter:  And unfortunately right now, we can't get at them.

Jay:  I have a sneaking suspicion we may never get them. Anyway, that's really interesting and that should segue right into the next thing which I want to talk about which is your "Magnum Opus, Sinister Forces, " but the thing about "Sinister Forces" that I think drives everybody crazy is the thing that drives me crazy about this kind of research which is that you can never really grab the monkey, I mean he's like...

Peter:  That's right.

Jay:  He's like slipping away all the time, right when you think you've got it, that's when you don't have it. And that's what you're dealing with in this. And there's this strange set of synchronicities that happen, and they happen to me, in this stuff, even though I'm not involved. I know that sounds strange. But there are actually synchronicities that lead me into weird things that happened in the "Sinister Forces," without me even being involved in it and it's very strange. One of the ones that just drives me crazy is the, maybe you know this, I don't know if it's in your book or not, but the right wing preacher who picked up Sirhan Sirhan hitchhiking and took him to the Ambassador Hotel? The night that he killed...

Peter:  Right, yes.

Jay:  And then a year later he picked up the, I'm trying to think, I think it was the housemate of, no it was the guy watching the house for Roman Polanski and picked him up and left him off at that house. And this guy is the only guy, besides the Manson family that was ever suspected of anything. He was in the other room listening to music, or something, while the murders were going on. And those kind of coincidences and synchronicities just drive me crazy. And your book was just a litany of them. It was a great work. Underrated I think, it's going to have a long life, I think.

Peter:  Well thank you, it's, the problem with "Sinister Forces," was the problem I had writing it. It lasted since through the Watergate period in the mid‑seventies and I only finished it a couple of years ago. The research for it went on and on. And every time they de‑classified more documents I had more to work with and to put in with the other pieces. Synchronicities, yes, they abounded. I wrote a lot of that book while I was overseas, so I was living in Kuala Lumpur in Malaysia. A place which is not known for having vast libraries of U.S. political documents and that sort of thing so, although I'm there, because I was there for other reasons, I'm doing the research for "Sinister Forces."

And every time I started a new chapter, whether it was on Charles Manson or whether it was on remote viewing or whatever it happened to be, I would be wandering around some weird little secondhand book stall in the tropics there in some small town or in Kuala Lumpur itself and I would find precisely the books that I needed.

Which is virtually impossible, you can't even imagine. These were not popular books; these were not books you could get in any regular bookstore. These were sometimes academic texts; these were hard to find works. They would be hard to find in this country. And then there they were..

Hi I’m Jay Weidner and I want to remind you that my new film Infinity:The Ultimate Trip is now out. Please
go to www.sacredmysteries.com and look it up as well as my other new films Sophia Returning with John Lash and
The Alchemy of Qi Gong with Pedram Shojai. Also we have The Alchemical Dream with Terence McKenna and our two 2012 films: 2012: The Odyssey and Timewave 2013. Also go to www.jayweidner.com and read all of my free articles that are up there.

Peter Lavenda. He has written some incredible books "Unholy Alliance"
and his "Magnum opus, Sinister Forces," .I read Sinister Forces in
about four days and then I had to like take a vacation. And then I had to come
back and reread it again. Because I really couldn't quite believe what I was
reading. Very, very important books actually. So, Peter how are you?

An interview with Jay Weidner

Lance: Wow! Now is there any connection between the Aryans and then the German Aryans that were involved with one of the World Wars?

Jay: Yeah, absolutely. In fact, all of the German Nazis were obsessed with the lore of a people that lived under the earth. And Hitler even told people that he had met the new man, i.e. the Aryan, that "He is terrible," he said. And this is where they received all of their technology, the Bell technology, which is the spinning mercury which powered the UFOs. They received all of that stuff from the Aryans. They had contacted them and told them what to do, where to go. And that's how the Nazis from 1930 to 1945 did the most astonishing advances ever in human history. They invented the laser, the UFOs. They invented radar, television. So many things that it's ridiculous. No group of people could ever do that, but they did it. And by the way, this was all being financed by the Rothschild and the Rockefellers including George Bush's grandfather.

Lance: That's right. That's right.

Jay: That's right, and it's all coming out of Skull and Bones. And Skull and Bones has a number - a secret number that no one knows what it means - and the number is 322. Yeah, well, 322 - it's quite obvious. It's the first day of Aries. Aries is Mars. Mars is March. March is the only month that's named after a planet, and all alchemy begins in Aries.

Lance: Wow.

Jay: So these are the alchemists, these are the high magicians. These are the Great White Brotherhood.. According to the Tibetans they lived in an underground city named Shambala underneath the Himalayas, and they are chalk white..

Lance: And then of course we know - this is common knowledge - that we brought over all the Nazi scientists up through operation Paperclip.

Jay: We certainly did.

Lance: ... Paperclip and installed them in high positions, including I think the top of NASA.

Jay: Well absolutely they did, and Werner Van Braun told Carol Rosin, his paramour, right near his death he said "You'll see; you'll see: in the end, they'll say all of this was caused by the aliens", and he started laughing.

Lance: Wow.

Jay: And listen, though: there's more than just that. It's been pretty much proven, beyond any shadow of a doubt, that the entire bottom third of South America was given over to the Nazis at the end of World War II. And that was their country; and they owned both sides, Chile and Argentina. And they ran - and Pinochet was their puppet, and so was Peron. And, if you ever got close to anything that they were doing in the mountains, you were 'disappeared'. In Argentina, thousands and thousands of people were 'disappeared'. Hikers would get near these Nazi facilities where they were building these huge craft, and they would disappear. And, if you look at Jacques Vallee's work on U.F.O. sightings and where they are and how many there have been and all of that - he did copious work for 30 years - you'll find that 75 percent of U.F.O. sightings are in the bottom third of South America. You can type in "Santiago, Chile, December 2008" and watch the YouTube video of about 40 craft flying over Santiago. I think you can almost see them waving out the windows: "See you later, suckers!"

Lance: Wow. Well, what in the heck are we going to do about all this? What can be done?

Jay: Well, you know, here's the thing: we don't know. And I'm not saying there is going to be this thing, because these people could be as wacky as they come. I think actually their numbers are - here's the thing. Their original number was 2442; that was when they said that the end of the Kali Yuga was coming, according to these ancient texts. And I think that they found out, by deciphering the long-count calendar in the late 1880s, that there may be a chance that it isn't 2442 but it's 2012. And so they hit the pedal to the metal and created the 20th century and got out of Dodge and they're up there, but there may still be 400 years left.

Lance: Oh.

Jay: Yeah. I mean their number system definitely says "2442". And it's a big mystery that we're all trying to uncover and figure out. The entire number system that these people use - have been using since they arrived here - is a higher-dimensional, or hyper-dimensional, number system. There are many places on Earth that use their numerical system, this hyper-dimensional numerical system; but the three places on Earth that have it the most are Giza - the Great Pyramid of Giza - Stonehenge, and the U.S. Capitol.  I'm talking about knowledge that no-one knows about, that would have been almost - one would think - nearly impossible for the guys that built the U.S. Capitol to know, yet they did.

Lance: Dan Brown just came out with another one of his thrillers about the U.S. Capitol.

Jay: Yeah. Well, when "The Sacred Geometry of Time" comes out, by Robert Lawlor, it'll put Dan Brown and the rest of them right in their place.

Lance: Well, of course; they're thriller writers, not esoteric scholars by any means.

Jay: No; Dan Brown's an apologist for the Freemasons. His books are all an apology for the Freemasons. Ronnie Howard, who made "Angels and Demons" and the other book, "The Da Vinci Code", based on his book - he is a also a top Freemason. And so they have their agenda, and their agenda is to get out of Dodge and leave us all here; and that's the truth of it. A lot of people are doing things. Patrick Geryls going to someplace in Africa where there are deep caves. I'm heading to Peru. There are people that are doing things. There are things you can do.

Lance: What about building a boat?

Jay: Well, it will work. The problem - if you can get past that initial coronal-mass ejection and the resultant tidal waves and expected 400-mile-an-hour winds. You know, my buddy Clif High is building a boat; I know that, and it's a pretty cool boat. I'm thinking about buying one just in case.

Lance: I just read his article on that. My jaw dropped. It was almost like reading your articles. It was chock full of hidden meaning and - at least that's what I got out of it. You can take it on a literal level, of course. But there's a lot more there than meets the eye, I think.

Jay: Yeah.

Lance: And he's going to be coming back on the show soon, I hope.

Jay: Well, there's a strange thing going on. But there's a certain percentage of people that get it and they really don't even need to discuss it anymore. If you don't see it, that's your problem. We're taking care of business.

Lance: Right.

Jay: He's building a boat; I'm heading to South America.

Lance: I'm probably going to stay right here. I have no desire to - for whatever reason, I've been stationed here. And so -

Jay: There's not a whole lot you can do.

Lance: There really isn't.

Jay: It's a matter of luck, even in a boat.

Lance: Yeah; yeah. And, with my resources, I wouldn't get further than leaving California, probably. But I do know the military's building underground bases as fast as you can flip pancakes, at IHOP.

Jay: They certainly are.

Lance: So they're just scurrying around; but that's not going to help any either.

Jay: Well, I think that the air would get sucked out of them, and then you've got the crust moving around - I don't know. I wouldn't think it's a good idea.

Lance: I wouldn't - it doesn't appeal to me.

Jay: I'm actually glad the Aryans are leaving, and I hope we get a 400-year reprieve - it may be longer. I think they've been a terrible influence on the planet, and they've left a wrecked planet behind.

Lance: Terrible.

Jay: And we've got to pick their mess up. So I don't really appreciate - and I hope we do take a few potshots at them as they're scooting out of dodge, frankly. Obama's got a terrible mess to handle. I don't pity a politician; but, at the same time, boy, I tell you, I wouldn't want to be in his position ow.

Lance: Well, there's been a lot of talk about disclosure happening very soon, that's supposed to happen on the television, that fits the timing and schedule and everything.

Jay: Yeah. I'll tell you when disclosure happens: it happens just about the last hour. That's the disclosure. And David Wilcocks going out of his way to say there's going to be a disclosure and he thinks that there's going to be these aliens landing and everything - I'm sorry, I love David, he's a great guy; but, no, it isn't going to happen. The Disclosure is that they're leaving. And the people in the know, and people like Clif High, and a lot of other people who already know all this - they know what's going on. You can look at it on the Web. You can see it through Ed Grimsley's glasses, going through the night sky. We know what's going on. Gary McKinnon is being extradited to the U.S. for cracking in to the Pentagon's network. He says there's a secret space program with gigantic ships and hundreds of thousands of personnel. Probably most of the missing people of the last 30 or 40 years.

Lance: Would you mention your websites again?

Jay: Yeah. www.sacredmysteries.com has all my videos, including the new "Infinity: The Ultimate Trip", and "Journey beyond Death", my new film. And www.jayweidner.com has all my high-weirdness articles. So just go there, or just type in "Jay Weidner" on Google, and look at all the nice things that people say, and the nasty things that people say about me.

Lance: Ah, I can't believe that anybody would say anything nasty about you, Jay. You're a terrific guy, and I love having you on the show, and you'll have to come back again soon; OK?

Jay: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

Lance: Alright. And be sure and go check out his articles and his website, because, I'm telling you, it's mind-blowing. Alright; thanks a lot, Jay. And good night, everybody.

Disclosure: Aryans, Mars
and the End of Days
An interview with Jay Weidner

Jay: O.K. What I'm about to say is going to sound very controversial, but I'll give you a quick breakdown of what's probably going on.

Lance: O.K. Good, good.

Jay: The powers that be are ruled by an inner group, and we will have a video series out next year called "The Sacred Geometry of Time", with Robert Lawlor, which is going to explain this in a much deeper way. But this group apparently knows all of the knowledge of the past, maybe as far back as several hundred thousand years. And they live here, on Earth; and they have lived here for a long time. But they've lived separately; until about 6, 000 years ago, they lived separately from us - some place on Earth, in a very nice place.

But, about 6, 000 years ago, the first of many alarms went off. And these alarms have to do with the advance of what we call the end of the Kali Yuga. 

Now, the beginning of the Kali Yuga was right near the beginning of the Mayan calendar, 3114 B.C. And it was the beginning of cities and writing and kingships and slavery and women as chattel and animal husbandry and farming and wars and walled cities and writing and science. 

And all those things actually began at the beginning of the Kali Yuga - not because we were getting better, but because we were getting worse. 

But not only because we were getting worse but because there was something going on: the reason those things came into being is because this group - that are human, but are different - went into action, because the beginning of the Kali Yuga, 6, 000 years ago, the beginning of the Mayan calendar, was a signal. 

A signal in a very long, long, long calendar - not 6, 000 years, but like 60, 000 years. And it said that the end of this age was going to come to an end, and the prophecy said that the sun would explode into gigantic solar flares, which would fry everything on Earth and cause huge Earth changes here on the planet. 

And this group knew all of this, because they had been through it before and they kept accurate records. So they went into action; and they took a lovely planet, filled with tribes of hunter-gatherers, and they transformed it into civilization. 

And they transformed it into civilization so that they could get out of here before the coronal-mass ejections hit. And that is what has been going on for over 5, 000, almost 6, 000, years. 

It is a central organizing principle, decided and governed by a group that we don't even know who they really are, for purposes which until recently have remained completely hidden and secret. 

And, they promised the managers that they're leaving behind, that they can have the underground shelters and everything; but I don't think that that's really going to help, because I just can't see how that could survive what is foretold. 

And the secret space program and all of these things - flying saucers, and bases on the moon, and the Nazis and Joseph Farrell's great book on the alchemy that the Nazis were doing - this is all part of this group developing the technology for what I call "Project GOOD", which stands for "Get Out Of Dodge". And they're getting' out of Dodge, baby; and they're almost out.

And, if you follow the work of Ed Grimsley - I don't know if you know who he is. He has these night-vision goggles, and he goes out at night and he videotapes these craft that you can't see with your eyes. You can type him in on Google. On YouTube, they've got a few astounding videos that he's taken of the gigantic craft.

And that's the story. And I figure I might as well get it out now, because you never know when it's going to be too late.

Lance: Absolutely. Now, of course, some people attach names to these unknowns. And I have read some accounts that these are some kind of Anunnaki/Atlantean lines, and then of course you have some kind of illuminati bloodlines flowing in there. But nobody really seems to know who they are, except that they're not -

Jay: Well, yeah, actually, we do. Yeah, well, they are the - Anunnaki is one of the words that they have. The Nephilim is another that they have.

These are words created by different cultures - the Hebrews, the Babylonians, the Sumerians, the Persians - to describe these people. OK? But their real name is very easy, because it describes where they go when they get out of Dodge. They're called the Aryans.

"Aryans" is just another word for "Martians", because Aries is Mars. They escape - at the end of the last Kali Yuga - I think, at the end of every Kali Yuga - the same cycle occurs every time; it may even be why there is a Kali Yuga.

They come to Earth after the Earth is healed from the gigantic coronal-mass ejections which occur; and they come back in their ships, and they repopulate the Earth. They may even take genetic strains with them, which is what the genome project is; they may take all the seeds with them, which is what the seed project is.

And they take it there; and they bury themselves under, because Mars is a pretty inhospitable place; and they wait for the Earth to recover. And they came back 60, 000 years ago, and they thought that the Earth had pretty much been wiped out. But a few groups had survived.

Native Americans had survived, by being in caves; and they tell those stories, about how hot - it was so hot that you stuck a stick out the cave opening and it lit on fire. The Chinese survived - somebody - one of those Asian groups must have survived, obviously. And some of the African survived.

So, when the Aryans landed, they kept to themselves. But they did have ships, and they went around; and they had an order that they couldn't have any sex with the remnants that were left behind. They could help them, teach them how to read and write and how to farm and all these other things; but they couldn't have sex with them.

But those Earth women and the way they move: they just couldn't resist.

So these are humans, but they went to Mars for a long time; and they lost the pigment in their skin, they lost the color in their hair, their eyes turned blue or green or hazel. They were tremendously big, because of the low gravity on Mars, when they landed here. Very advanced, super advanced - and they've been here for a very, very long time.

And they're leaving. They're going. They're leaving now. There are colonies - I know this sounds completely out of my mind, but I have proof for all this. There's colonies up on Mars; just type in "Hale Crater civilization" on Google, and read Skipper's work - Joseph Skipper's great work on the colony there, up in Hale Crater.

This is what's going on. This is the long and short of it. And, yeah, they live here; they actually lived once in Norway. That's where they lived, because they liked the coolness; they couldn't get used to the heat. And that spiral that exploded over Norway when Barack Obama was going to get his Peace Prize in Norway - yeah, well, that's their weaponry.

Here's the problem Obama faces. OK? These guys are leaving. They're getting out of here because they think that the coronal-mass ejections are coming. Alright? They're leaving, and they don't care who runs the United States anymore. They did up until last year. Now they don't care anymore.

And so Obama's7 sitting here, and he's got the remnants of their technology. He's got the stuff sitting around; right? And they're probably busily back-engineering the Aryan technologies; OK? And this is what's going on in Argentina and Chile, where they're raiding the tunnel systems.

This is the new world order; these are the managers that have been left behind. The new world order is not the Aryans; the new world order are the Aryans' left-behind managers.

Lance: Right; that would make sense.

Jay: Yeah. The Aryans think of themselves as the 'People of the Red', or 'the People from the Red Planet'. And, when Bauer changed his name to "Rothschild", which means "red shield", he was really signifying that he was the shield for this thing, this project, which moved into high gear at the beginning of the industrial age. And everyone's thinking that they're deforesting the planet, raping the mountainsides, enslaving people, doing all this stuff, just because there's something that has gone out of control; but it isn't.

It's all the underpinnings of a huge, secret project to develop, quickly, colonies and ships and moving gigantic amounts of goods and services across the gap between here and Mars.

And that's the truth right there.

And a lot of people are going to know this pretty soon; I'm not the only one that knows what's going on here. This is all written down, by the way, in ancient texts from India, all of this.

Lance: Oh yes, that's right. You briefly touched upon that the last time, I think.

Jay: Yes, this is all ancient texts, and these texts were from the Aryans and they told their story.

Lance: If they had the ability to go back and forth to Mars and further, I'm sure, isn't coronal mass ejection going to destroy Mars as well?

Jay: No, because they're going underground. First off, it will hit Mars but it won't be anything like what happens here.

Secondly, the problem with the coronal mass ejection - which I have to say, the film "2012" did a pretty good job of evoking - is that it is a huge electromagnetic blast which has a commensurate effect on the core of the Earth, which is heavily electromagnetic. So it causes a core flip.

OK, here's how it works. The poles of the sun rotate every 37 days. The equator of the sun would also rotate every 37 days, except that the angular momentum of the planets at the equator of the Solar System causes it to slow down, so it only rotates every 26 days, instead of 37.

Every 87 days, there is a crossing over of the magnetic field, as the 26 catches up to the 37 again. You follow me?

Every 87 days, there's a small electromagnetic crossing, which encases the sun in a tightly woven electromagnetic shell. After about 12-13, 000 years of this nonsense, the entire sun is bound in a huge receding-quickly magnetic field, which has a commensurate effect on the Earth's electromagnetic field, which also begins receding.

This is all happening right now with the loss of the sun spots and the Earth's magnetic field receding. It's a 13, 000 year cycle that we are right on the edge of and when the sun finally has to right itself, i.e., move its rotational fields back into sync again, which it has to do, there will be a huge electromagnetic storm which will go out way beyond the Earth.

It will be carrying with it gigantic coronal mass ejections, which will ignite the forests of the Earth and boil the oceans.

If you're underground, on Mars, well you have a pretty good chance of making it. There's no electromagnetic fields on Mars. There's no tectonic plates. Nothing's going to be spinning around and you just wait it out.

You just wait it out and maybe after a few hundred years, I don't know how long, when the forests grow back and the animal life comes back, then you mount your expeditions and you go back.

So we're building not only the expeditions that are going there, but we've been building for the last three hundred years the expeditions that are going to take them back here, too. Yeah, that's what's going on.

It recurs all the time. The Vedic texts and the Mahabharata, this is what they're discussing, including the gigantic ships, or arks, as they call them.

I want to make one thing clear. I'm not saying white people are Aryans. I'm saying that white people are the bastard children of Aryans and Earth people. You understand? They do not look like us at all. They're chalk-white. They're freakish-looking.

They're where the vampire myths come from because they can only come to the surface of the Earth at night. Their skin is so translucent that you can see the capillary system, so they look blue in certain kinds of light.

Lance: You know, there was a movie that was a remake of "War of the Worlds" and I thought to myself, "Well isn't this strange, for them to make this kind of movie where they're already underground, and those laser beams." Very prescient.

Jay: Spielberg has to know. When I saw that, I just went, "My God, he has to know." He has to know that they've been here the whole time and they are underground. That's exactly where they are.

And by the way, these other things that we see - and I'm not saying there are not other aliens, there could be; I'm not even going to argue that - but some of the other things that we've been seeing are their robotic creations.

They've been here, these robotic creations, for a long time. I don't know if they're robotic or genetic, I can't tell. Sometimes they're robotic, sometimes they're genetic.

Here's the thing Obama has to ask himself. He knows that these guys are leaving. He knows there's a disaster coming of some kind. They shoot a hyper-dimensional weapon over Norway while he's picking up the Peace prize and everybody's screaming and yelling, "Why does Obama get the Peace Prize, he hasn't done a damn thing."

I'm going to tell you why Obama gets the Peace Prize. He gets the Peace Prize if he doesn't shoot at them while they're leaving. Here's the problem that he faces, though, and this is a serious problem.

You're the Aryans and you're back on Mars waiting for the coronal mass ejection. You got the hatches buttoned down, everything, right? What is to prevent the elites that you've left behind from back-engineering the craft, that you've left behind - the ship - and coming after you and stealing your place? I know that sounds crazy -

Lance: No, to me it doesn't.

Jay: - and I'll tell you what. He's worried that they're going to attack us, and that's what that thing in Norway was about. These people are saying that these are benevolent aliens and stuff. You haven't read your history. The Aryans stormed down, they enslaved all of India, they created the caste system.

Lance: Every war has been created indirectly by this influence, hasn't it?

Jay: Absolutely. If you read Andrew Collins' book "From the Ashes of Angels," it's a great book. He talks about the history of these babies, these magical babies that are born after the Aryans and Earth women have had sex.. These babies are white and they have white hair and chalk-white skin, and some tribes were fearful of these children and they killed them.

But other tribes thought that these children were exalted beings and they raised them up into exaltedness in the tribe. These beings frequently had red hair; red hair because of the overabundance of iron oxide in the air on Mars causing red hair.

So they exalted these beings and these were the European tribes who exalted these beings. Read his books, they're very interesting.

Lance: I will, I'll check that out for sure.

Jay: On the other hand Africans have a history of killing albino children right when they're born. I don't know if you know that. They're considered wicked.

They think that these children, the offspring of the Aryans, were wicked or there was something bad about them. This is a long tradition where they would get rid of these angel-demon children.

So the Aryan influences are more prevalent among the European-stock cultures and so they became the vehicles of the real Aryans, which have nothing to do with white people at all, actually, except for leaving behind some genetic trace..

And so that's what's been going on. Skull and Bones is part of this group. Michael Tsarian has traced a lot of these German groups back. The German groups are the key. Once you start back engineering the German groups, you can find everything.

The Saturnian Society, Aleister Crowley, all of the UFO stuff from South America. All this stuff is all intertwined into a cohesive story that makes total sense and gets rid of a lot of the gobbledygook.

But it's backed up and bolstered by very, very serious ancient texts, Purana texts and Vedic texts, which tell the whole story very clearly.

Lance: Huh! Well, how does that tie into the idea that there are different ages? In other words, do we ever get out from under the prison bars of some kind of highly advanced extraterrestrial civilization that controls us without our knowing? Isn't there supposed to be a Golden Age after the Iron Age?

Jay: Well, it is, and here's the thing. This is really the crux of the matter. What happens is is that through the long cycle of the Yugas, which is really called a Kulpa - which is all of the cycles together - there are so many deaths.

And as you approach the Bronze Age and the Kali Yuga, there are more and more deaths of violent nature.

And it takes thousands and thousands of years for bones to completely vanish. The Earth becomes haunted by an inescapable presence - called the 'Ka' in Egypt, which is a residual that's left behind. And the only way that you can have a Golden Age is for all of the Ka to be burned away so that the Earth is completely renewed.

And unfortunately these guys, these Aryans, broke the rules. They didn't want to die in the last catastrophe, which they had to do. That was part of the deal. The Earth can only be renewed if all of the Ka goes. And they escaped, and they went away.

And they kept all of the knowledge that had been gathered from the previous Kulpa, which we were also supposed to lose.

The only way for the Golden Age to actually incarnate is for the earth start out in a pristine state again. And they broke the rules.

And this is why Tsarion's work is so good because these guys broke the rules, and now we're just their slaves. Now racism has come into it. Whereas before there was no racism. Now there's racism. The Aryans think that the Earth peoples are too stupid, that the Earth peoples are too dumb.

And it's not dumb or stupid. They never had the advanced technology carried over from the Dark Age. . And this is the problem. So there has to be a cleansing of the earth so that it can be renewed. And they're not allowing that to happen.

And they keep bringing back the same genetic strains over and over when actually the Earth is constantly rolling the dice and searching for new genetic strains that it can use to embrace consciousness. The Aryans keep bringing back all the old genetic structures. Did you know that corn is a hybrid?

Lance: Yeah.

Jay: Corn is a hybrid. When they discovered corn, even to this day, it is a hybrid. Somebody had to have messed with it a long time ago.

Lance: Now it's all genetically modified.

Jay: Well, it is. And again you have to ask yourself why that's being allowed and why all the forests are being cut down and why...

Lance: Well, when what are the chemtrails and HARP?

Jay: Yeah. Those are to keep us away from seeing what is going on behind our backs, which is a giant evacuation. And they don't care about us anymore.

Lance: Wow! It seems like there ought to be some kind of higher authority that - let's just call it The Cosmic Patrol - that oversees what's fair and what's not fair. In other words, aren't there some kinds of higher more advanced ETs or civilizations or angelic realms or whatever that can put things straight?

Jay: We know as much as we know, and that's all we know. The Vedic texts say that the divas, which have been destroyed through this current Kali Yuga according to the text, have gone back to the Godhead.

They left thousands of years ago to travel back to the Godhead to tell the Godhead that the evil Archons, who are the Aryans, by the way, have taken over the entire planet and that they needed help because the divas have been driven off the planet. The divas, of course, are the nature spirits.

And as Tolkien shows us very clearly in the Lord of the Rings, Sauron and Sauraman are destroying nature to fuel and finance some mysterious project. And if you go back and look and see in history who Sauron is, it's obvious that Tolkien talking about Sargon. Sargon was the first real king of the Kali Yuga in Mesopotamia.

He started calendars. He started clocks. He started the workday. He started everything, and he was an Aryan. And so you can see that there's this regimented thing that starts entering in and removes us from the natural state of a highly advanced hunter/gatherer, which is really what human beings are.

And that's our natural state - very close to the Earth, no agriculture, all fresh foods, a lot of hunting, and a lot of gathering. Very spiritual though. Not a grunting life, but a wonderful beautiful life filled with meditation and a much higher standard of living, which was what was going on before the Aryans emerged.

Disclosure: Aryans, Mars
and the End of Days
An interview with Jay Weidner

Lance White: Greetings, everyone, and welcome to A Fireside Chat with Zany Mystic. I'm your host, Lance White. Tonight, I'm delighted to welcome Jay Weidner, who returns to the show.

Called by Wired Magazine "an authority on the hermetic and alchemical traditions," and "erudite conspiracy hunter," Jay Weidner is a renowned author, filmmaker, and hermetic scholar. He is considered to be a modern-day Indiana Jones for his on-going, world-wide quests to find clues to mankind's spiritual destiny via ancient societies and artifacts.

His body of work offers great insight into the circumstances that have led to the current global crisis. He is the producer of the documentary films, "2012 The Odyssey," it's sequel, "Timewave 2013."

He's the director of the forthcoming feature documentary, "Infinity: The Ultimate Trip." He is currently in the completion stage of this feature documentary on death and the afterlife.

It features numerous authors, such as Dannion Brinkley, Dr. Alberto Villoldo, Neale Donald Walsch and many other spiritual luminaries. Let's have a fireside chat with Jay right now.

Hi, Jay. Welcome back.

I was reading the article section on your site today. I want to mention your site, www.jayweidner.com, now, in case people want to go there. On the articles page, there's some new information that I hadn't noticed before.

It was like my jaw dropped onto the desk when I read the first few articles, especially the ones about Stanley Kubrick. Can we start with the article on Stanley Kubrick's "2001: A Space Odyssey" and some of the amazing synchronicities that are occurring there?

Jay: The whole entire Stanley Kubrick odyssey - not just "2001," but the entire work of Stanley Kubrick - has to be understood by stepping back.

Step back as far away as you can and take a wide look at it. Stanley is obsessed with time. His third film, "The Killing " is intercut between many different times. This is 1956, way before "Momento" or any of these modern films.

When he moves forward to "Dr. Strangelove," again he is inter-cutting, not between different times, but in the same time. Time is different, even though it's at the same time.

When you're on the bomber, time is moving fast, but when you're at the President's conference in the War Room, time is moving very slow. When you're trying to get the code from General Jack Ripper, time is moving slower than erosion. Jack isn't going to tell you the recall code.

"2001" is doing the old m.f. with time too. We cut in 1/24th of a second between his thrown bone and a spaceship years later. Also we don't really know what time it is on Earth when the Star Child returns at the end of the film.

When you read my article "Alchemical Kubrick, Part I: 2001, the Great Work on Film, " you'll see there is a conscious thing that Stanley Kubrick is doing. He's designing the film to be an initiation.

When you blend together the other two articles that have about Kubrick in them and what I have now discovered about the films of Stanley Kubrick, an eye-opening expose is at hand. I'm intending to get the expose out here soon.

Stanley Kubrick cut a deal, I believe, with the US government to fake the Moon landings. I'm not saying they didn't go to the moon, they did go to the Moon. They went to the Moon, they brought back Moon rocks, they put reflectors on the Moon, they did all sorts of stuff.

Believe me, they've been on the Moon a lot of times, but they didn't go the way we were shown in the Moon landings, which were faked by Kubrick. In exchange, Kubrick cut a deal where he would be able to do the kinds of movies he wanted to do.

The first of these movies was "2001: A Space Odyssey," of course. He embedded tons of alchemical and esoteric information into the symbols and the script. You can also use "2001" as a springboard to understanding a bigger story that Stanley is telling, which is unveiled very secretly through the rest of his films.

Kubrick's bigger story is that this world is ruled by a group of people who are very advanced. Apparently, they have a secret space program, which they're hiding from us. They do not really time-travel, but they have a curious relationship to linear time. They appear to be able to move in and out of it.

This is all according to the films of Kubrick, not my opinion. These people are into deep and dark sexual practices. I'll try to be as nice about it as I can. The films, especially the films that follow "2001," are a long expose of a dark, sex-magic cult that rules the world.

It's all done very subliminally. It's a treasure trove that, like a zip file that keeps pouring out when you open it. At this point, I don't even know how to piece it all together because the amount of information coming out is so astonishing.

Lance: Well, it's hidden right there in front of us. I would say his movie "Eyes Wide Shut" is probably the closest to actually coming out and exposing the sexual side of life as a fictional movie, except that he's most likely playing it down quite a bit.

You mentioned in your article that there were some scenes cut out of it. It is unfortunate that the producers didn't really want to get out there.

Jay: There are incredible continuity breaks at certain points in "Eyes Wide Shut," which are impossible for a man of Stanley Kubrick's discipline to have allowed. I can't really tell you what happened in between these continuity errors, but there is something cut out. That happens several times in the movie.

From those continuity error breaks we can tell that something has changed. It's not left the way Stanley would have wanted it, but I can't go beyond that because Warner Brothers won't release the director's cut, the final cut by Kubrick, which I think he deserves. I mean, my goodness, it's his last film.

They release Ridley Scott's director cuts; they releas Steven Spielberg's director cuts. Why can't they release the director's cut of "Eyes Wide Shut"? But they're not, and we can't hope for that anymore.

But, yeah, I would say that there's a deep and dark undertone to "Eyes Wide Shut" which no-one - well, there's one guy on the Web, an alchemist, who has touched on it. But it's quite an astonishing group of films; and one day I will write either my film or my book about this whole thing and get it all down in some sort of order.

But I tell you it is such a trip to sit in front of my big-screen TV with Blu-ray Stanley Kubrick films and step through them slowly and discover one marvel after another.

Lance: Well, I'm going to have to go back and watch them, because you astutely wrote that you didn't take a shining right away to his movie "The Shining" and I'm with you on that one.

For some - for whatever reason, I never - it was over - it went over my head; I took it on a very literal basis. But, when you explain the synchronicities and what's really going on there, it just makes me feel like an idiot that I - of course, you don't know until you know. And, you know -

Jay: No, the secret stays secret until it reveals itself. You know, it's like Schopenhauer said: when you say something unusual, everyone discounts it; then, the second time they hear it, they just shrug their heads and ignore it; then, the third time, they act like, you know, everybody knew it all along.

And I think that's what you're going to find with Kubrick in ten years. I'll be long forgotten, and it'll just become common knowledge. There'll probably be films made about him as an alchemist and all sorts of things that will happen here over the next ten, fifteen years, I predict.

Just as I predicted - by the way, I believe I've only been on your show once; right?

Lance: Correct.

Jay: Yeah. And I believe the last time I was on your show was in April 2008.

Lance: That sounds right.

Jay: Yeah. And, if you listen to that show, which somebody has put on the Internet - I don't know who - up on YouTube. Somebody wrote to me today about it. Apparently, in that show, I predicted the economic downfall of the fall of 2008. I'll have to listen to it, because I can't remember.

But, so, it's not hard, when you make a study of things, to predict; it doesn't take psychic ability. And I predicted a lot of things that are coming down the pike, and they have nothing to do with me being a fortune-teller.

I'm just a guy who reads a lot and then extrapolates forward. And maybe I have a psychic abilitywhich aids me that I'm unaware of, but it certainly doesn't help me with my investments or anything else.

Lance: Well, I'm with you on that one. Like I said, I listen to my guests, and sometimes I'll hear something later that I didn't hear the first time.

Again, it seems to depend on how awake I am in that moment, and it seems to change from day to day. So I try to put on my memory cap every day, so I don't forget everything I've remembered up to that point; but it doesn't always work, and sometimes I forget to put it on.

Jay: Yeah. Well, we all have our fading moments, as the world gets crazier and crazier.

Lance: Well, yes. Now, to what do you attribute that? You mentioned now, also, we could go into the numerous processes that you've studied, from ancient artifacts, from the Egyptian pyramids, to the Cross at Hendaye, to the Hindu artifacts and Mayan - I mean it goes on and on and on.

And, according to the Mayan calendar, we have just entered into the sixth night; so we're getting close to wrapping up these tick-tocks that they claim are the nine levels of consciousness that are supposed to be arriving soon.

Jay: Yes, I'm - yes. It's unscrewing itself. What's really going on is that there is a hardening of time. Time is a vortex, and we're moving down towards the tip. We're slowly cycling our way down towards the tip of this vortex.

And, as we cycle down, the concentric circles grow tighter and faster; so each circle around is faster, but also closer to the last one - and a reflection.

As the circle above and the circle below in the spiral are very similar to each other, they are mirrors; so you - whereas it would take 20 years, 25 years, to go from World War I to World War II, it only took a few years to go from Vietnam to the Gulf War, and now we're seeing two wars that are right next to each other.

So we're fighting a two-front war that started within a year of each other.

And, at this point, we'll start seeing reflections of this densification of time happening as we approach the tip. And, like the tip of a tornado - which is as hard as a diamond, even though it's only spinning air - when you have spinning time, it also is hard as whatever a diamond is in the fourth dimension, which is what time is.

And that's when things get really weird, because, at that point, the circles near the tip begin crossing themselves; and, when they begin crossing themselves, which is really what hardens up time, then you can go forward and backwards.

But what's really going on with this Mayan thing is that, as you approach the funnel, the bottom funnel of the time vortex, there are back waves.

Like in physics, when waves hit a wall and they come back and they're underneath the advancing wave, there are backwaves, which strike the membrane of time, the cone, the vortex cone, the tetrahedral -

If you take a tetrahedron and you look at it, you can see that it's like a squared-off tornado. And so we're approaching now very quickly this point and all of our reaction times are shortened, and so a mistake is sure to be made.

In fact, what's going on actually is - they're making a mistake a day or so, right now. Almost every day, they're passing another law which is just going to make everything much worse when we hit that eye at the very, very end of this trip down the vortex.

And then we're going to hit the eye, and then there will be no time. And that's what we mean by "the end of time".

Lance: Well, now, that brings up a few questions. At least the government and the shadow government - the one that you talked about, that has the second space program - they're fully aware of all this, aren't they?

Jay: They are.

Lance: But it seems that they're doing everything they can to halt this process, or at least to keep us from entering into it. But that seems like an inevitable process for it, as far as what you're describing.

Jay: Well, it is, because the actions of them are not easy to understand, and so we must realize that there is something afoot with them that doesn't make sense in the human realm.

Now, what I'm about to say - are we going to a break or anything?

Lance: No.

The Long Emergency

Part Four

With

James Howard Kunstler

Jay Weidner: If you are interested in our video collection go to www.sacredmysteries.com and check them out. We have DVD’s by people like Terence McKenna, Nicki Scully, Sharron Rose, Pedram Shojai, Gregg Braden, Neale Donald Walsch and others. Also go to my own website www.jayweidner.com to read my articles etc.

We are here with James Howard Kunstler. James, you were telling us about your book, "World Made By Hand, " did you ever get anyone to option that from Hollywood?

James:  Actually, I am having discussions with people.

Jay:  Yeah, I would think that it be a good choice. You could bring that in for a few hundred thousand.

James:  If you are ripping yarn full of interesting incidents; there ain't nothing wrong with it.

Jay:  No. So what's your new book?

James:  It's a sequel to "World Made By Hand".

Jay:  Oh, good.

James:  "World Made By Hand" took place in the early summer of the year, in question, in the future, and the sequel takes place around Halloween time; around now actually. The characters in the first book have moved into the background, and the characters, who were in the background in the first book, have now moved into the foreground. The new one is about the 11‑year‑old son of the town doctor. And he commits a crime and has to run away from home and is at large in the county, throughout the course of the book, and falls in the company of a young psychopathic bandit and killer. So the book is all about what happens to him in this situation.

Jay:  Sounds pretty good. I think there is going to be a lot of those guys around, don't you?

James:  Well, I don't if there will be lots of them. They already are. I mean there are plenty...we don't have shortage of people who misbehave in this land.

Jay:  Has crime gone up where you live in the last year?

James:  Well, I live in a pretty quiet corner of North America. I live in sort of a main street, a classic main street, small town in upstate New York. I don't know that crime has really gotten that much worse around here. But, you do see what used to be the lower middle class of people here really struggling much, much more than they were a year ago or several years ago. They just cannot make it. They can't feed their families, and they are barely keeping roof over their heads and paying their bills, and its very, very hard for them.

I am rather gloomy about the trajectory of all this. I think that we are going to get into a lot of political and social trouble and it's not going to be necessarily an orderly situation out there.

Jay:  Well, on [account of the fourth] turning, it could be even the possibility of some kind of insurrection or revolution or possibly even a breaking up of the country and the regions.

James:  Well, these things happen. I mean, I said as much in own book that its not written in stone that the U.S. is going to remain exactly the way we know it. In fact, we may fall into more regional governance as we start to get trouble with transportation and the transmission of goods. And I think that that's a very good possibility. I mean that's not going to happen overnight, I don't think. But it's definitely out there. It's possible.

Jay:  I worry about this a lot. I used to live in Los Angeles and in Seattle, and I'm sort of right in between right now. In that the middle of the west coast and I wonder about the inner city populations. And the loss of jobs that's going on everywhere right now especially, in the bottom 20% of the population. I don't hear a whole a lot about troubles in the inner city or anything and I'm wondering what you think is going to happen in those places?

James:  I think it's kind of weird the way these things fade in and out of our consciousness. And in and out of the headlines over the decades you know. There's been very little racial friction or grieving acting out of grievances in the last you know five years or so. I guess the Rodney King riots are the last.

Jay:  Yeah that was a long time ago.

James:  The last instances that.

Jay:  That was 14 years ago.

James:  well we go in and out of these periods where that happens. And we been out of it for awhile and I mean I don't think there's any question in that the poor people of color in cities are getting hit very hard. By the banking fiasco and the economic down turn that it leads to. And I know I think there's probably a lot of stuff that been going on there. And it's a matter of time before that stuff really expresses itself more vividly more then it has.

Jay:  So we could be on a danger of a kind of a LA riots situation?

James:  I don't want to go provoking anything or I don't want to sound like I'm promoting the idea.

Jay:  No.

James:  That it would be a good thing. I guess I'm saying that these things go in and out of the American experience. And we been in an out phase for a quite a while and its liable to come back in. There are just a lot of there are a lot of persistence in harents tensions in American life and they haven't gone away.

Jay:  And there not going away.

James:  One of the things that are happening is that you're seeing a certain amount of racial amnesty directed at the president. Because of who he is and it seems to me that could become more troublesome. But it's really the first expression you know it's the first expression of the grievances of poor white people. In a long time really since you know when I was young during the social justice era of the early 1960'some when you know we saw clash between the old southern status quo and the civil rites movement. And that was sort of the last time we saw a really emphatic white grievances movement. And it's starting to kind of gear up again and it's not a pretty thing when it happens.

Jay:  Oh no! And the thing is again its there's a trend towards centralization like with the healthcare. But to some people it looks kind of silly to be trying to create anything more then we don't have anything to pay for what we have.

James:  Well the whole thing is a very, very disturbing on many counts. I mean it's disturbing.

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  it's disturbing that the medical system is as screwed up as it is. And unjust and chaotic as it is and at the same time it's very unfortunate that we don't seem to have the money to really pay to improve it. So I have no idea where we go from there.

Jay:  I don't either. Then there's the simple mathematical problem. By their own account, they're going to add 50 ‑ I think more like 70 ‑ million people to the rolls. And that's all fine and dandy, but we're going to need 2‑5 million doctors. And where are they going to come from? I don't know.

James:  I'm not a big believer in doing statistical analysis from extrapolation. I think we're going to see too many other things change in the meantime.

Jay:  I agree. I think all of this speculation is meaningless because the future is going to be so much weirder and different than we've thought and imagined it. We should just begin to live more simply, and then we can just surf with whatever happens as this thing cranks up.

James:  Well I do think that circumstances are going to compel us to live differently, whether we like it or not.

Jay:  It's already happening; it's just not happening that fast. It's interesting because in Los Angeles, if you drive to the Mexican neighborhoods, all the front yards are gardens, and all their backyards have chickens in them. And then, you drive to the other neighborhoods and the suburbs, and it's all lawns and everything. You just wonder when people are going to wise up that they have to start taking care of business. And those Mexicans are doing it, and everybody else is just falling behind. I think we need to take that kind of attitude all around. And I think you're right; I think the laws themselves are going to change. In our little small town, you can't have chickens and wildlife yet. But I have a feeling as this thing advances, they're going to start allowing people to have things in their yards that are not allowed now, because it'll be turned into more like a small town from the '30s, I think. Actually it could even go back to Thomas Hardy, couldn't it?

James:  Well it's possible, yeah. In my two fictional books, my two novels, about life in the future, one of the characters has, more or less, become a feudal lord in a little corner of the county. And I think that there will actually be quite a few people who feel that they're in a position where they have to trade their allegiance for security.

Jay:  I think you're right, and I remember that character. I think it's going to be moving in a lot of ways to some sort of new feudalism, and people may want the protection of the local wealthy guy because there could be roving bands. Who knows what's going to happen?

James:  Or even food security, just to have a meal everyday.

Jay:  Yes, I think you're right. I think what we have to do is...well we have to go is what we have to do. But I think what we have to do is just get as much of this information out as possible. Take a deep breath. Nothing's going wrong yet. And we'll be all right.

James:  Well I'm not really a 'gloom‑and‑doomer'. I have a lot of faith in human resilience, but I do think that the times will soon require us to think. And it always happens in human history and this is nothing new.

The Long Emergency

Part Three.

With

James Howard Kunstler

Jay Weidner: I'm Jay Weidner. Check out all of our great DVD’s at www.sacredmysteries.com. We have DVD’s on alchemy, sound yoga, sound healing and other subjects. We feature artists like Jonathan Goldman, Gregg Braden, neale Donald Walsch, Alberto Villoldo, Terence McKenna. Also check out my own web site at www.jayweidner.com and read all the high weirdness to be found there.

We're talking to James Howard Kunstler. The great writer, researcher, and journalist, who has brought us a lot of prescient facts over the last few years. And I'd like to hear what he says about what's about to happen. I'm sure you get this a lot, what do you think people should do? I mean at this point with the number of pressures and catastrophes just over the horizon? I mean, what can somebody do?

James:  Well, there's an awful lot for them to think about. You know, my opinion is it's very important to get out of debt. It's very important to consider where you're living and whether you're going to be able to continue living in that place. Basically whether your region has a future or not. And it's very important to think about what your vocation is, whether you can do something that will be useful to other people that will allow you incidentally to make a living.

Jay:  Well that's good advice. So we're going to decentralize? People are going to be moving out into the country I guess? And even more?

James:  No, I don't think that it's going to be quite like that.

Jay:  No?

James:  In fact I think we will see demographic shifts, but that they will be rather surprising. There's an assumption by a lot of people I talk to that if the suburbs get into trouble, then therefore everybody will move to the city. But I don't think that it's going to work out that way. And I don't think everybody's going to move to the country necessarily either. I think that what will happen is that the suburbs really have very poor prospects. So do our big American metroplex cities, you know. Virtually all of them, and they're quite different. I mean San Francisco, and New York, and Boston are not the same as Dallas, and Houston, and Atlanta.

But nonetheless they've all achieved a size and a scale that is not really going to be consistent with the energy realities of the future, and I think that they're going to contract substantially. And in some of these places the contraction is going to be more disorderly than in other places.

But I think they are going to contact, and that even as that occurs, they will densify at their old centers and along their waterfronts, and the places that have waterfronts are going to be in a more favorable situation. I mean, this is apart from whatever happens with climate change.

But I think that the action is actually going to be in the smaller towns and the smaller cities in America, the very places that have been deactivated and more or less depopulated in our time, in recent history. I think that they're going to become the places that have a much better chance of making it in the future as we confront these new energy realities, and what will in effect be necessarily a new scale of organized human life.

Jay:  So, we're not going to...?

James:  There's something I forgot. I left out something that's very important. You know, the places that are successful are going to be the places that have a meaningful relationship with agriculture, because we're going to have to grow more of our food close to home. We don't know how much, whether it's 10% or 80%, but we're going to have to do more of that. And the places where that's not possible are going to be places that are going to be very troubled.

Jay:  Yeah, well, that's true. And I think you're going to see places like... I guess I would say the cities you really don't want to be in, in my opinion, would be Albuquerque, Phoenix, Las Vegas, and I think maybe Southern California is not going to be a very good place to live in.

James:  Well I would agree with you on all of those, and I think that they're going to be very unfortunate places. You know, what's going to happen for awhile, maybe in Southern California, and in Phoenix and Tucson, is there will be sort of a fight between Anglos and Hispanics over who will occupy the terrain. And eventually we'll make the discovery that it will not support any substantial population of any ethnic group.

Jay:  That's right, and never has actually.

James:  No, it's been an unusual period where you know because we had a lot of cheap energy. Were just able to pump a lot of food and water into these places and you know. When you flow over Arizona you see all these irrigated circular farms with you know the great revolving irrigation machines. And you know it takes a lot of energy to do that and it's expensive. And were not going to be able to continue doing that. So those places are going to be in trouble I'm a little optimistic about places like the upper mid west. I think the great Lakes are a wonderful resource that has obviously fallen in and it's been deactivated fallen in to just use.

You go into these shipping towns in Northern Michigan and Wisconsin, Minnesota you know there's very little there anymore. They look like a kind of a former soviet back order up there. But it's a great inland sea very close to some of the best agricultural land in North America and I thing will become reactivated.

Jay:  And I would think Canada is going to probably do pretty well in the next few years too.

James:  They may actually even benefit from whatever climate change developments occur.

Jay:  well I mean the thing is that growing food is going to become very important. And we just seem to have a secluding reality is going on. Where we have on the one side this obvious to me a decentralization going back to local culture and food and maybe will be connected by the Internet. I don't know if they'll be enough energy for that. But then at the same time we have this really and its not just Obama it was Bush too and it's been going on for like a long time. It's kind of an attempt to keep trying to centralize authority in the Federal Government and getting us involved in all these incredibly insane wars. Which are draining the economy?

James:  Well I got to stop you for a minute because it's not as though power wasn't already concentrated in the Federal Government before George Bush came along.

Jay:  Well that's true.

James:  You know.

Jay:  It just seems to be driving in this [inaudible].

James:  You know in an increasing concentration of power and over the decades and really accelerating in the mid 20th century. And that was the high tide of the American industrial fossil fuel experience you know. By the time we were in the 60'some and 70'some and 80'some that was it that was the peak for us. And it's not surprising that's the point the central government was the most powerful. But it's been increasing less so.

Jay:  Well you definitely are an optimist in that's good. I want to hear more about anything else that you got coming down the line.

James:  Well I did finish a book this past week. I wrote a novel called World Made By Hand was published last year. And it was a novel said in the post oil future in Upstate New York.

The Long Emergerncy

Part Two.

With

James Howard Kuntsler.

Jay Weidner:  My new film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip is getting a lot of great reviews. I think it is the best film that www.sacredmysteries.com has ever released. The film examines life after death, infinity and many other subjects. Also check out our other new film Sophia Returning with John Lash. You have to go to www.sacredmysteries.com to see all of our great films

We're here tonight with James Howard Kunstler. James, what's your website? For people who want to see your stuff.

James:  www.kunstler.com.

Jay:   I really like what you're saying about this idea that it's exactly the opposite of what the conspiracy theories are saying because I really agree with that. I think we're actually heading towards a period of, actually, immense decentralization and I wonder what you thought of that.

James:  Well, yeah, I think that, that is probably going to be the trend and you know, although I tend to call it relocalization. I think we're going to see power and governments really devolve downward to a local level and you know, more and more, the action will be in our towns and I'm not even sure the counties are going to have a whole lot of say about things. One of the other big trends out there is that our government at all levels is becoming increasingly insolvent, unable to collect enough money to run itself, so that's going to be increasingly a problem too.

Jay:  That's happening in every place that I know about and every place that America.

James:  Are you in California?

Jay:  Oregon, we're in Southern Oregon.

James:  Oh, OK.

Jay:  And we're getting a lot of refugees coming up from California right now. There are a lot of both those with some money and those without any money. Freeway five which runs right up through Oregon is getting more hitchhikers than I've seen since the sixties and more people by the roadside. It looks like in two or three years its going to be refugee camps running up the west coast if things go on like they are. And the west coast is getting particularly hit hard because the real estate thing. But, you know, you should get kudos, because really and truly it was a banking crisis but the banking crisis was preceded by the skyrocketing oil prices which really were the last straw for about thirty percent of the households in America. And they can no longer get to work, they moved far away from their jobs where real estate was cheap like in Riverside and San Bernardino, outside of LA and they were driving long commutes and then the four dollar a gallon gas busted them and they couldn't make their house payment.

JamesAlso though, it's hard to say whether those people found themselves out of a job before they ended up having a problem commuting than a job that they no longer had.

Jay:  Well, it's true.

James:  All these things kind of converge and the banking crisis was well out of hand before the price of oil really skyrocketed in 2007, 2008. When I published The Long Emergency I had a chapter in there that was titled "the hallucinated economy".

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  And it was all about the housing fiasco. You can see it coming from a million miles away, I mean, you didn't have to be a PhD in economics to understand what was going on. It was just a lot of really bad lending, fraudulent securitization of debt, and the two words we never hear in connection with the housing/banking crisis, the two words we never hear are "swindle" and "fraud." But those are really the issues that were at the heart of it.

Jay:  Definitely, on all ends. And everybody's to blame, that's what's incredible about it. Interesting.

James:  Well not everybody, but, the bankers certainly are, and so are the people who bought houses under false pretenses, or even under wishful pretenses.

Jay:  Well, they did. And now we have the problem of what I call cascading crises, where we're getting them mounting, these crises. And right now gas prices have leveled off a little bit, but you know Mexico is due to become an importer of oil by 2012. And I was going to ask you, were they ever audited, the fields in Saudi Arabia, as far as we know?

James:  Well we do. What we know is that the figures for oil reserves in Saudi Arabia remain officially state secrets, because Aramco, the Saudi Arabian oil company, is a state agency. And they don't like to give out their information, and it's not to their advantage to give out information. They benefit from the world not knowing what their supplies are. Well interestingly, it was more or less made official today that Russia has surpassed Saudi Arabia as the world's leading oil producer. But you know, then again Russia is also probably past peak, and on the way down itself.

Jay:  Yeah, we don't know much about them, do we?

James:  Well, we don't know that much. We know pretty much what they are getting out of the ground. It's a little unclear what's left in there, but we have, I think, good reason to believe that they've peaked, and that they are on the way down.

Jay:  And they've just recently signed huge contracts with China, right? To pump a lot of oil down to China over the next decades, right? [background music starts]

James:  Russia? I'm not really sure what's going on with them and China. What we do know is, that as a general proposition, the state owned oil companies are changing the way the oil markets function. Because they are indeed making special favored customer contracts with other nations, rather than putting their oil on the auction block, which is what the futures markets are. And you know, we're going to see more and more of that. And what that portends to the United States is that, us not being one of the more favored nations in the world, and being the subject of a lot of grievance, and envy, and other negative feelings on the part of other nations, we're going to have trouble getting oil from these parts of the world now.

The Long Emergency

Part One.

With

James Howard Kunstler

Jay Weidner:  Welcome back. I’m Jay Weidner. You can check out my films at www.sacredmysteries.com or you can read my articles and other weird stuff at my own web site www.jayweidner.com. Also check out my newest film Infinity: The Ultimate Trip: Journey Beyond Death with Neale Donald Walsch, Gregg Braden, Brian Weiss and many others. Also check out our new Qi-Gong series with Pedram Shojai, This is the most comprehensive DVD series on Qi-Gong ever.

We’re talking to James Howard Kunstler. He is the author of the great book, "The Long Emergency, " and another book that I really like, "A World Made By Hand, " which I think would make a great low‑budget movie, if anyone is out there listening that wants to make a movie, that would be a great low‑budget. Film.

James has really gone into this whole thing about the peak oil, and where we're headed over the next few years, and it's a real pleasure to talk to you. Are you there?

James Howard Kunstler:  Yeah, I'm here.

Jay:  Great. Hey, listen, I was wondering, have you ever read the book, "The Fourth Turning?"

James:  Yes, I have.

Jay:  Yeah, it fits in in with the real politic that you're talking about. I just finished it a few weeks ago. I was really impressed.

James:  Yeah, I admired it quite a bit. It's maybe not what it seems to be from its title. It seems to have a sci‑fi odor about it, but in fact, it's a very serious meditation on the generational cycles of history.

Jay:  Yeah.

James:  And the various moods of history. I think that it's got a lot of truth in it.

Jay:  Last night, for the first time my wife forced me to watch, "Gone With the Wind." I really didn't like the film, but while I was watching it, I realized that it was a film that was made during the last fourth turning about the previous fourth turning, which was the Civil War. It was, of course, made at the height of the Depression, which was the last fourth turning, of which we're heading for the next fourth turning according to the book, of which I'm sure the audience is going, "Huh? What are we talking about?"

Basically, it's just this theory that about every 85 years, or one long generation, the United States goes through a major upheaval from the Revolution to the Civil War to the Great Depression to the Long Emergency, which is a great name for what is going on here. It's not a great depression, it's worse in some ways than that.

Let’s concentrate on the good side of things, but before we do that, let's talk about what you're talking about. A lot of people get upset when you say that there's a peak oil, and that the world is running out of oil, and that the oil companies will tell you that there's more oil on earth than we could use in a million years.

What they're saying probably is true, but you're saying something different. You're saying that the crude oil, or the sweet crude, oil that's easy to get to, that's what we're running out of, right?

James:  Well, in a way, though we're beyond that now. Yeah, I think what I wrote in the book, "The Long Emergency, " it was about the end of cheap oil. That was the point, the end of cheap oil. But I think we're seeing some other things. There have been quite a few developments since 2005 when "The Long Emergency" was published. The oil problem is still very much with us, of course it was never really about running out of oil, per se. It was more about the failure and instability of the complex systems that we depend on for daily life in America, in the space of these instabilities. In the face of these discontinuities.

By complex systems, I mean the way we feed ourselves ‑ industrial style farming. The way we do commerce and trade. The way we do transportation, the way we inhabit the landscape. All of these systems of daily life are going to have to change pretty severely in the face of the circumstances that are upon us. We're not prepared to think about that at all.

Jay:  No, it's a huge gap in people's thinking, and it's really almost ‑ I can't quite explain it ‑ it's almost like a psychopathic reaction to reality.

James:  Well, let me try to explain it, because I don't think it's that abstruse, really.

Jay: Okay.

James:  I've said this to many a college lecture audience. I think that we are in the grips of something that I would describe as the psychology of previous investments. By the way, this is not a completely original though, either. This is the same as the concept of sunk cost. The psychology of previous investment really means that you've put so much of the resources of your culture ‑ the collective resources ‑ you've invested so much of the collective resources in a certain system, a certain way of doing things, that you can't imagine changing it or letting go of it. That's what we've done, we've elaborated a system for daily life in America that is very rigid and unadaptable.

We've invested also, our national identity in it. Now we can't let go of it. I'm especially talking about not something abstract, but about a very practical thing. The living arrangement that we have in America, which is essentially the suburban living arrangement.

The investments we've made in that are so horrendous and gigantic, that we can't imagine having to live without it, or do without it, or change it, or even modify it much. We're stuck with these investments at the moment, and it's the biggest obstacle for us to think about what we really have to do.

Jay:  Well, I can't even imagine, actually. If you go out to Riverside, California or San Bernardino County, which is east of Los Angeles, you're dealing with about a 35 percent foreclosure rate. They're turning into ghost towns.. I wouldn't live there, and if someone is living there, they have my pity. I'm sure the crime rates are starting to climb. People have found a way to absorb the crush of what's happened in the last year. They had a lot of good stores, they had a lot of wealth. They're grouping together with their families, and they think that it's over when, in fact, commercial real estate is really getting into a dangerous position right now, where it could just turn into almost a chain reaction and they could just all be closed down.

We're dealing with this thing, and I don't think anyone really realizes what kind of change is really at hand, where it's truly going to be a cultural change.

James:  There's been one major change since I published "The Long Emergency, " or, rather since the Atlantic Monthly Press published it in 2005. That is that we destroyed the banking system, or as the banking system destroyed itself. And we now find ourselves, and this is really the larger problem at the moment, and it even has implications for the energy situation, but the larger problem is that we, we can't generate any more debt, we can't pay back any more debt at all levels, you know, the household level, the corporate level, or the government level. We are comprehensively broke and we can no longer run a revolving credit society and that's really the larger problem now. We may not, you know, we may find that we're out of capital before, well before, we're out of gas. And this has implications for the whole oil industry as well because what we're seeing is a lack of capitol to make investments in new oil exploration and development and a lot of the projects that we had hoped would be coming online to address the ongoing depletion, those projects are not going online, and we're not going to compensate for the ongoing depletion and this is going to have kind of an accelerating, snowballing effect. And I think it's a lack of capital may be what finally puts us out of business with oil rather than sheer depletion.

Jay:  Well let me ask you, if we get into a position like that, honestly, aren't we going to be so weak that we're either going to have what Gore Vidal thinks which is a military dictatorship, or the Chinese could take advantage of the situation?

James:  Well I don't think the Chinese are going to be landing in San Pedro anytime soon. And I also, you know, I like to say that I'm allergic to conspiracy theories. I'm especially allergic to grandiose theories. I think this idea that we're going to fall into a military dictatorship is kind of grandiose. If anything, I think that we will see that the federal government will become increasingly impotent and ineffective and that's exactly what we're seeing now. We just voted out the Republicans and we voted in a Democratic president and a Democratic administration and Congress, and you know, we are making the unhappy discovery that Mr. Obama seems to be just as ineffective as Mr. Bush was. I hate to add, I voted for Mr. Obama.

Jay:  Well yeah, a lot of people did.

James:  And I'm not sorry I did but cause I think he's a better quality person than the previous president but it shows how ineffective the central government really is. I don't really think they'll be able to organize any kind of a fascist regime.

The Jehovah Hoax

Part Four.

With

Archaya S.

Jay Weidner:   My name is Jay Weidner. You can check out all of our great films and videos at www.sacredmysteries.com. We have films with Alex Grey, Alberto Villoldo, Neale Donald Walsch, Gregg Braden, Brian Weiss, Terence McKenna and many others.

Acharya, I was wondering if you ever ‑ I presume from looking at your site and reading your work, that you've made the connection between ancient Egypt and Christianity and the strange analogies between Osiris and God and Horace and Jesus and Isis and Mary and Satan and Seth. I've quit saying Judean Christianity, I now say Egyto‑Christianity because it's really more Egyptian than it is Jewish, isn't it?

Acharya:  Isn't it amazing? You just encapsulated it very well. Yes, you know ‑ yes, you were speaking of "Zeitgeist" earlier. In fact, that first part of the first "Zeitgeist" was an insignificant part by my book. So I have had to come out with more wonders material to assure the people who have seen that, that there was serious, scholarly, scientific evidence for the claims in that movie. That led to this companion guide which was a partial exploration of the Egyptian connections in "Zeitgeist." Then I wrote this massive study called "Christ in Egypt: The Horace‑Jesus Connection," that goes into the details of ‑ you have this list of Horace born on December 25 of the virgin Isis‑Mary, and all those characteristics that were so similar to the Christ myth.

I put together from thousands of Egyptian texts. It was a very grueling past. I went through them in a number of different translations, of primary sources. There are hundreds and hundreds of different primary sources, I scoured. Some of it, I translated from Egyptian.

But I'd compared all these different resources, like 900 sources, in my book. There are 2,400 footnotes. It shows where all of these elements come from, what they mean, and that they really are real ‑ these parallels, these comparisons, these similarities ‑ between Egyptian religion and Christianity.

This looks like the most obvious thing imaginable in the Mediterranean was to Egypt, and its massive culture and monuments. There were so much of it that they couldn't be destroyed by the fanatics who have come since which would include, of course, Christians and the Muslims. They haven't been able to destroy all of it. Although, of course, in this era, we are seeing even more degradation and destruction going on, unfortunately.

That's religious fanaticism for you.

Jay:  Yep.

Acharya:  But yes, these comparisons are very profound. The Egyptian religion really has much more meaning to it than just crazy people worshiping crocodiles, and ibises, and crocs, and so forth. Their spirituality was tied into the earth itself, but also the cycles of nature. For example, Osiris was a night/sun god, but also represented water especially the Nile. The Nile over‑flooding every year was claimed to be Osiris fertilizing the banks of Isis to create a new life of Horace. This was daily Egyptian perception of reality. Everything was animated by the gods, by sentiments, by divinity. It must have been just completely extraordinary to live in such a mind set.

Jay:  I agree. I completely agree with that. I think that waking up every day and having time and space be sacred, as they understood. I can't even imagine what it must have been like.

Acharya:  You can see it in expression in these magnificent buildings that they were able to create. We still don't know how with things like the Great Pyramid of Giza and so forth, how exactly they were able to manifest this unbelievable building. Then to think, the Temple of Karnack, it's just endless, all these tombs and so forth. They all had this divine meaning attached to them. By the way, it's been estimated since there were half a billion followers of the Egyptian religion over its period of 3,000 years or so. So this is not an insignificant portion of humanity. And they had tremendous influence on the surrounding cultures including the Judean one, which was only a couple of hundred miles away to Jerusalem. Really, it was not far. There was this well‑worn Horace road that took them from Jerusalem to Egypt.

So this isn't like saying, "Oh, how could they've been influenced. They were so far away. They had to cross a major ocean of several thousand miles." No, they only had to just walk by foot a few hundred miles, and they were right in the heart of Egyptian territory.

So to say that there was no influence on the ‑ that this massive culture had no influence on the Judean one is just like saying that the Jews live in a vacuum, completely untouched by anyone around them.

Jay:  Yeah, well I agree with that. I think the course of the Egyptian influence is much more prevalent than we've been led to believe, including even in India. It seems to have some Egyptian influence. Or maybe Egypt has some Indian influences. I can't really decide which way it went. It depends on who was first, and it's kind of hard to tell. It looks like India might have been a little bit earlier than Egypt, but I really can't say. Some people tell me that Egypt is 100,000 years old. That's certainly what the priest told Horiatis that it was over 100,000 years old, so we don't know. But I suspect it's probably much older than we can believe.

There are all sorts of strange things in Egypt, too. There's a large slab of black granite that has about 10,000 hieroglyphics engraved in it. We stuck a toothpick down into the hieroglyph and the toothpick went down two inches in the black granite. This hieroglyph was probably about a quarter‑of‑an‑inch‑by‑a‑quarter‑of‑an‑inch big. Now you tell me how ‑

Acharya:  You would think it's drilled.

Jay:  Yeah, I mean not even a drill could do it that clean.

Acharya:  Yeah I know it's amazing. I listened to my friend, a dear old friend, Christopher Dunn, talk about the various tool‑making, tool marks and so forth on these different monuments. Yeah, it's really fascinating. You look at that and you think, "Well, this is an advanced culture." Now, if that's the case, then their ideation as concerned to philosophy and religion and so forth, must also have been advanced. This, to me, is the great unexamined factor that I think I bring to the table. I contributed to a book about ancient technology that had to do with the monuments globally of this Ablasian culture, if you will. This whole religion that I have put the pieces of this puzzle together, absolutely goes with all of these megaliths that we find all over the planet from Stonehenge to this great pyramid and even older monuments.

In the Americas as well, I'm sure you know all about these incredible massive buildings, constructions that they're finding in South America and North America, that are aligned, archeo‑astronomically aligned, to various milestones that were important to the ancient world all over the planet. The solstices, the equinoxes, the phases of the moon, something like Stonehenges actually, is actually a sort of celestial computer.

Now, if you combine that knowledge, that archeo‑astronomical knowledge, with their religious devotion, in fact, that these simple Stonehenge are temples, that's where you have what we are now terming "astrotheology." This is what their religion was.

They combined this incredible advanced knowledge of the planetary bodies and earth's relationship to them with a sense of devotion and worship. That's where you get this term "astrotheology." That's it in a nutshell.

It's all over the planet. We find remains of it. They're finding more and more, as you say, with this black granite slab. You were talking about the priority of India and Egypt when you have something like Mohenjo‑Daro in Egypt, in the Indus Valley that is really quite incredible. But then you also have this, that Nabta, in Egypt that is now like 6,000 years old, that they've found archeo‑astronomical alignments with this temple site.

So yeah, there's this pinball going back and forth as far as the antiquity goes and priority goes. But it's being pushed back all the time. The antiquity of man and a possible knowledge that is, so that's all these thousands of years, being pushed back all the time. It's really fascinating.

Jay:  Well, it is. And, of course, there are also the oomparts which are the strange objects that are found in the strata that really shouldn't be there. Michael Cremo's work and Richard Thompson's work...And there are other things too. They won't even do the proper archaeological dig, like in North America or South America, because the scientists are completely convinced there's no point in it because all life began in Africa.

Acharya:  Yeah, right.

Jay:  It's just cherry‑picked almost, what they choose to do and look at, and what they choose not to do and not to look at. The idea that Christianity was really purportedly put up by Paul to be a control agent for the Roman empire, I don't see how that could even be called in to dispute, especially when you study Paul and there are suspicious things that Paul is doing all the time.

Acharya:  I agree with you.

Jay:  This is a guy I wouldn't trust for anything, Acharya.

Acharya:  I think this is something that you would really enjoy because you're visually oriented with all your imagery put together; I have this new product called the "2010 Astro‑theology Calendar." You can really see this Christian overlay that you were just talking about. You can really see how they usurped all kinds of pagan holidays, that they overtook them, and tried to Christianize them and so forth.

Jay:  Yep.

Acharya:  When you look at this calendar and see the days and see how they've had this astro‑theological pagan meaning previously. I think that that would be a fascinating for you.

The Jehovah Hoax

Part Three

With Archaya S.

Jay Weidner:  We're all going to return to the sacred earth, hopefully, before this collapse of the economy and the world is over. I think sometimes that is really the only answer. I think the virtual reality of this world is disappearing in front of our eyes. A lot of people that are not preparing for what's about to happen are not going to make it. Maybe this is the way nature cleans out the place or something. I don't know. But if you're listening to this, you should be aware of what's something. Do you take care of yourself physically? Do you take care of yourself spiritually? You need to learn the truth. That's really all that's important.

I have a friend who's quite a well‑known intellectual. He tells me that the Age of Aquarius is coming here within the next two years, around 2010. He assures me that Christianity will be completely disappeared off the planet in just a few years because he thinks that it was completely a Piscean cultural phenomena, I guess you would say.

Acharya:  Yes. I believe that Jesus Christ is a mythical figure who was contrived by the priesthood in order to unify the Roman Empire under one state of religion.

Jay:  Yes, some theory.

Acharya:  Other than that, they differ with the details. Now, all this stuff, including what you brought up earlier about the old testament figures being mythical, this is only in my first published book which is called "The Christ Conspiracy: the Greatest Story Ever Sold." I delve into this notion that there is no historical evidence for Moses, the exodus, Abraham, Solomon.

Jay:  Yes.

Acharya:  Abraham and Sarah seemed to be the Indian god and goddess Brahma and Saraswati. I go into this kind of detail in "The Christ Conspiracy," as well as what you were just talking about, this whole Piscean, Aquarian timeline. That it appears, if you go and look at the meanings of these myths and you find out that they are astrotheological ‑ they have to with the sun, the moon, the stars and the constellations, and so forth ‑ that we are dealing with these ages, these procession of the equinoxes that's spelled every 2,150 years or so, the sun is back dropped by a new constellation at the horizon as it rises. That's called heliacally. That's where these age names come from. The ancients were pretty well aware, the more educated the priesthoods and so forth, they were pretty well of these various ages, both dated with the possession of the equinoxes and, in fact, of course they started to name them and chart them way back then.

There's a no man's land, so to speak, in between the different ages of a couple of hundred years or so. So I haven't really been able to get a straight answer from an astronomer as to when exactly these ages would change. Like they say, there's this, this comes in a sketchy period.

But around 2,100, 2,025, maybe more or less, years ago, we supposedly moved into a new age. The technology back then was different, obviously, than what we use today, this chart time and so forth. But there was this belief that we were moving in to the age of Pisces. That's why we have all of this discussion in the New Testament about fish.

These are the fishermen. There's the fish on the back of people's cars as actually an ancient symbol. There are the fishes, the communion food because when Christ is resurrected, He asked for fish. It's like, "Why would the resurrected God need some food?" This is a hint that we are dealing with this astrotheological development here.

Prior to that, we had Moses and he's destroying the bull worship, and kind of raising up a lamb. They're starting to slaughter fewer bulls in the Judaic practices and more lambs.

Jay:  As we go from Taurus to Aries.

Acharya:  Exactly. Then the calling of the shofar, the ram's horn, and so forth. There's this whole lamb stuff going on there. We find that in other cultures as well.

Jay:  That's right.

Acharya:  We find that other gods, they're associated with the lamb, with Krishna and Horace and so forth. All these motifs start to become very common and very obvious. They're much more interesting. The way they incorporated all these cosmic elements into the religious god and mythology of the day is much more interesting than the story of god coming to earth 2,000 years ago, and this little backwater is filling 90 miles, the area of where the gospel story supposedly took place. This tiny, little backwater in the desert region that does supposedly came to earth at that time. For a few years, he ministered for like two or three years and then was killed. And that's how God is going to fix the sins of the world. This story has really become corrupt and not very attractive or interesting at all. In fact, it's been a source of a lot of grief on this planet, to say the least.

Jay:  That's for sure, yes.

Acharya:  I don't want to see it replaced by anything worse either.

Jay:  No, I don't either.

Acharya:  The best way through all of this, as far as I'm concerned, is to know what this motifs stand for. That no culture has a lock on god. No culture is depicting accurately 100 percent. There also has to be room for this idea that we don't need to follow an organized religion. We do have innate morality. That will allow us not to destroy our neighbor in the name of religion, in the name of God. Not to try to enslave our neighbors and other human beings in the name of this God. As you say, if you studied the history and origins of religion, then you are free, really, of that belief because you start to realize there's a much bigger meaning to this stuff. And it doesn't have to do with one guy who's dictating rules, so we all have to follow or we're killed or whatever.

Jay:  Yeah I agree. I think it's beginning. I think books like what you're doing, the books that you're writing and things like these are really the beginning of the serious reeducation about what religions are. I think you're right, religions, especially Christianity, was created by the Romans to control populations because it was too hard. The Roman Empire was too big. I'm Jay Weidner. You're listening to "Smoke and Mirrors." We'll be right back. Thanks for listening.

The Jehovah Hoax

Part Two

With Archaya S.

Jay Weidner: I want to remind everyone about our great films and videos at www.sacredmysteries.com. You can also read my articles at www.jayweidner.com. We're talking to Acharya S. about her site is www.truthbeknown.com. We're talking about the origins of religion and Christianity and all sorts of good things. Acharya, do you know about this new book that, I believe it's in Hebrew but it's being translated right now. It's called "How the Jews Invented Their History?"

Acharya:  I don't know that one, no.

Jay:   I haven't read it, but this is a book written by the head of the history department at Tel Aviv University. It's the number one bestseller in Israel, and has been for a year now. It is being translated. This guy proves beyond any shadow of a doubt that there was no Moses, that there was no Solomon, there was no David, that the Jews actually rewrote their history to back‑date it because they were so jealous of the Greeks. They back‑dated it so it looked like the Jewish God was giving the scoop long before the Greeks. What's interesting about this though is the Jewish god, as you well know, is Yahweh or, translated into Latin or English is, Jove or Jehovah. But Jehovah is Jove which is Jupiter, which is Zeus essentially.

Acharya:  That's right, yes.

Jay:  So the Jews and the Christians have essentially been worshipping Zeus for 2,000 years. And they talk about us worshipping pagan gods and things. It just cracks me up. I mean, here it is. Their name is Jehovah. I have a church down the street from me called Jehovah Witnesses. They knock on my door and I tell them, "Oh, so you're the witnesses for Zeus." hey don't get it. It's right there in the title of their god. What Zeus essentially did, according to this book, was he fired all the other gods and made himself the only god. Really.

Acharya:  Well, that's the kind of what is called he‑knows‑he‑ism, but they kind of shared, in the Olympic pantheon, they kind of shared powers and so forth. But he certainly was the top dog. He had the last word. But you see that they're always bickering amongst themselves, and the Greek gods, the big stories. It reminds me of when I was a kid. I was very fond of reading the stories of Greek myths. They were great. They were colorful. They reflected humanity in its many forms, good or bad. You didn't have to believe in them in this era. They weren't going to get you if you didn't believe in them, which is a little bit different from the Judea of Christian Islamic tradition.

If you don't believe in them right now, if you don't believe in Yahweh, Allah, God, the Old Testament, the nasty guy, then he's going to get you for even hell and even Jesus is going to torture you according to the New Testament and so forth. It never ends. There's always this threatening and jumping on your case.

So, the Greek gods, they're a little bit more playful and they're a little more accepting of the human condition, human nature. But at the same time, I didn't find the explanations of the myths to be all that satisfying. There's a lot of psycho battle. And yes, that's great. It's how teaching us about our inner spirituality and so forth, and our psychological make‑up. That's great, and that's very helpful to humanity.

But there's also this whole hidden layer that almost never gets exposed, that is much more interesting to me because it goes beyond human neurosis and psychosis. And there's only so much of that that I can take. It's like watching a soap opera on a loop, endlessly.

But this grandiose cosmic theme that has been recorded in this nest is far more interesting after a certain point. It has to do with how profound is the effect of the sun on the earth, for example; how much we need the solar cycle for life to continue; the affect of the sun's rays in the moon, and having that second night light.

All these wonderful qualities of the sky, both day and night, as well as the earthly factors like the wind and water and so forth, they were all relished as something with meaning. To the point of having divinity bestowed upon them by the human perception.

I rather like that perception because it gives you the feeling of when you're, I always do this as an example because it strikes me constantly, and I still climb mountains and see wonderful views. I climb a mountain and I stood up there, and this magnificent sunset, and the waves of hills in front of me or other mountains, and the sky is a riot of colors and it extends out into the Cosmos for all eternity, for infinity, to plug your newest project.

So you can sit there and experience that, and really understand. That's the meaning that's trying to be conveyed by our most profound spiritual position.

Jay:  Yes. I completely agree with that. I think that returning to the sacred earth is probably the real way out of our predicament right now. My name is Jay Weidner. We're going to take a break. We're here with Acharya S. talking about religions and their lack of illumination maybe, even their lack of credibility in some cases. Anyway, I'm Jay Weidner. We'll be right back. Thanks for listening. Make sure you look up that article, "The Shining Shining."

Jay Weidner:   I want to remind everyone that my new film, "Infinity: The Ultimate Trip" is now out across the United States and showing, and to critical acclaim, I might add. If you're interested, go to www.sacredmysteries.com and see if you can find where it's showing in your area. Also if you want to read many of my articles they are up at my web site www.jayweidner.com.

To understand how to get out of the mess we're in, and to move into the future I think we have to understand our past. Our past is really almost an illusion. And almost everything that we've been taught is just not the way it really is. So I wanted to have Acharya S.

Acharya S. who has written all about the incredible subject of the history of religion.

She's written "Who is Jesus," "Christ in Egypt," and The Companion Book to "Zeitgeist." I think she had something to do even with the "Zeitgeist film." She has some very, very, very strong opinions about religion. Are you there?

Acharya S.:  I am. Hello. How are you?

Jay:  You are. Well, welcome to the show.

Acharya:  Thank you, but I like your intro to give a positive thing on this information.

Jay:  Well, it is. When I learned the truth about religion, my life got better. I think that that's really important to learn what it was that was going on back there so we can really begin to understand the, dare I say, mind control that we've been under for a couple of thousand years.

Acharya:  Oh, I absolutely agree. When you discover the origins of religious ideologies, traditions, motifs, myths, then it's extremely liberating. This information in its proper context is beyond fascinating to me. I find it just to be astounding, it gives me a reason for being, and it allows me to feel the thrill of being alive. So actually the way I'd like to present this information is that, I'm digging up a nursing fact that has long been buried. They could just be little facts over here and there, they may be major facts, but it's just a continual process of overlaying that are so incredibly interesting and so reflective of a very long process of human thought that dates back tens of thousands of years.

They very much define who we are in the present time. So in order to, as you said, to know where we're going, we need to know where we've been. And stripping off a number of misrepresentations, misconceptions, outright falsehood, and so forth, to reveal the pure innocent nature of a religious ideation, it goes a long way to restoring our collective souls, as far as I'm concerned.

Jay:  I like that. So, tell me, did the hoax ‑ or I shouldn't say a hoax. Let's not call it a "hoax" here. Let's hear your view on it. I don't want to put any presuppositions on. So, in your view, what are the origins of Christianity, for instance?

Acharya:  Let's put it this way. If you go back far enough beyond let's say the Christian religion into paganism and you start looking at the gods of older cultures, and you look at the attitude that we have towards them today and our interpretation of them, you see that, for example, I always use the example of Hercules because most people know about Hercules, this God‑man, this Greek god‑man who supposedly walked the earth ‑ and had all these adventures, throwing off supernatural powers and amazing strength, and a godly ability. He was half‑god and half‑human. So that story pre‑dates with Christian era by hundreds of years. It developed in many different places, had about different flavors added to it, where it went all over the Mediterranean, with different cultures over a period of hundreds of years, so it's really this extraordinary tale, this mythology that developed.

Back 2,500 years ago, let's say, the people who are followers of this Hercules religion ‑ and there were many of them all over the Mediterranean and particularly in Greece ‑ would have considered this story to have taken place in real time. He was a historical character. They really believed he walked the earth.

Now today, we look back and we are taught from childhood ‑ and rightly so, I believe ‑ that Hercules is a mythical character, a mythical figure. And so, we don't have a problem with that. If I went up to you and I said, "Oh, Hercules is a mythical figure," you would not react in rage and start telling me that he is your Lord and savior, and I better be quiet, or I'm insulting your religion.

So generally speaking, that's not going to happen. And so, we have this going on this modern era that we look at that particular culture, in that particular god and so forth, and we say, "That's a mythical figure." Now, back then, 2,500 years ago, you could actually be killed for that. That would be blasphemy. And there was a capital offense associated with that. Today, we have no problem with this.

Now, so let's look at that character and see ‑ we'll look at all these correspondences he has for these figure. Son of God, mother is debatably a virgin but she certainly is a mortal and she was impregnated by a godly figure, the Father God, Zeus. He does these extraordinary, super‑human activities on planet Earth, some of which could save humanity and so forth.

Then he has this struggle with the 12, this interaction with the 12 past Hercules and so forth. They have this most chief of the gods, the son of God with the 12. So you start looking at what does that reflect, because now we start finding this motive with the son of God with the 12, or the God they figure the divine man, whatever, with the twelve and all these other adventures. They're born of virgins and so forth.

So we're looking at that and we realize there's this archetype. The archetype actually is not meaningless. Like most archetypes, not all archetypes, certainly have meaning. That's what establishes them as archetypes.

Now, this one happens to have what has been termed "astrotheological root." It has origins in nature worship, observation of the movement, the daily and annually movements of the various celestial bodies including the moon, the stars, constellations, planets, and extending into who the earth itself and many other factors that the earth and the sun and the moon and stars contribute to and produce.

Then you have to start wondering why is this story, when it's applied to Hercules, Mithra, Krishna, Horace, Osiris, and various gods and goddesses throughout the world, why is that mythology. But then when a very similar tale with numerous details and motifs that are quite alike, these other myths, why is that taken as history when it happens in another culture which, in this case, happen to be the Jewish culture of the first century.

Now, that's to be taken as history. A large segment of the population insist that that actually happened in the third dimension 2,000 years ago when, essentially, we have a very similar story and pattern and a number of motifs in other cultures and it's taken to be myth. So, in reality, there really is no evidence that this took place on planet earth.

Jay:  Yes.

Acharya:  I'm referring specifically about the gospel stories, which I just sort of gave a general outline of.

Jay:  Yes.

Acharya:  There's no serious, credible scientific, valid evidence or proof of this happening in the third dimension in that part of world, in that culture. Indeed when you start examining the story n great detail, in its proper context, with all these other different cultures around using the primary sources in their original languages, wherever we can find them, and you look at the story in the Mediterranean, you start to see that this could only have been contrived in the same way that we believe the priesthoods of other cultures can try their myths. In other words, if we could just name these myths Zeus and Hercules and Krishna and Mithra and Horace and all these characters, I say these myths because that's what most people think, calling them myths means, but if we were to deem them myths, then we also must look at our own current sacred cows as being myths as well, created by the same processes or the same priesthood over and over again, the same story.

The Nine Gates. Part Four.

With

Carl Johan Calleman

Jay:  So I love this idea of compressing time and one of my favorite subjects to talk about is movies. And in fact, I have a new article out right now called ``Secrets of the Shining,'' go to www.jayweidner.com, you can read it. It's about what Stanley Kubrick's The Shining, is really all about. So I'm getting a lot of hits. But one of my other movies that I write about ‑ I haven't put the article up, because I was going to make it part of a book, is Titanic by Cameron. What I'm interested... what made me interested in the movie Titanic, was the fact that it was the biggest selling movie of all time. And it made like, you know, three billion dollars; by the time it finally went out of release.

More than anybody's ever made, before or since, on a movie. So I wondered what it was, that was hitting the public. This was eleven years ago, 1998. And so I went to see it and I enjoyed it.

And I just thought about it and I realized why the movie was a big hit. And the reason that the movie is a big hit, was because we know what's going to happen in the movie, before we see it. We know that Titanic's going down. So the drama of the movie is not that it's ending, the drama of the movie is how does it end, and what happens.

And the story is about, you know, a ship on the sea and the wilderness of the ocean. And it's divided up into classes. And one of the people says, you know, not even God can sink the Titanic. And the Captain turns all the engines on, so that he can get to New York faster than any boat ever in history.

And his reaction times are shortened because of this. And in fact, this is the reason why they hit the iceberg and sink.

And what I'm saying is, is that, it's just like the Cliff High's computer work and there's a... there seems to be this collective unconscious that wanted to go see that movie and realize that it's really the story of the next 15 years of their lives.

As we who were on the Titanic, with our reaction times getting shortened by the moment, where any mistake can destroy the whole thing. Isn't that kind of what's going on?

Carl:  I think so.

Jay:  [laughs] Are you an optimist? Are you an optimist or a pessimist?

Carl:  I'm... well ‑ are you referring to something special, or...

Jay:  Well, do you think at the end of this... are we going to be better off at the end of this?

Carl:  Oh, absolutely. I think a lot of people will be much better off. But from another perspective of course, the values will be ‑ what I do believe is that this world that is coming out of this will be a world of peace; it will be a balanced world. I think it will be a world of safety, and I think it will be a world, basically on happiness. And so in that sense, I am an optimist. But if you ask me as my personality‑wise, I think I'm... I'm more or less a little bit on the more, more pessimistic side, or I don't know really. But in terms of what the plan is, I think I can really see a plan for this thing.

But of course, that's not what everybody wants to ‑ in what they would consider a better life, but I think it is what some people would consider a better life, but not everyone. Certainly not.

Jay:  Well, who would be a ... Who are the people that would think it's a better life?

Carl:  That would think it's a better life...

Jay:  Yes.

Carl:  Oh, I think basically all spiritual people. All people that want to see the unity in everything. I think our perspectives are changing with these cosmic forces that I mentioned. And so we're going to a world where all the filters that we've had so far, from seeing things the way they really are, from seeing the unity of everything, those filters are being removed.

And that's suppose for good, and it maybe painful for some people, but I think, basically that will lead the humanity to seeing the beauty in everything, seeing the unity in everything, seeing the spirit in everything that we haven't really been doing in the past.

And so I think this is a better world, but it's not a better world for the... I would say the stock brokers, and a lot of people that have other ideals about what constitutes a good life.

Jay:  But I think we built a virtual world, and it wasn't real. And, you know, you watch the stock market collapses, and then, serious guys who of course failed to predict any of this, get on TV and tell you that the United States was 40 percent of its wealth. The United States doesn't have... you didn't have it, to begin with.

Carl:  [laughs]

Jay:  It's just hilarious. And people are killing themselves because they lost wealth that they never had, and it's just a game.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And that world is disappearing, and thanks be, that that's happening, because I was getting real tired of that one.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And so, I agree with you. I think we're... we are on the edge of something, and I think your work is just really, really, really incredible, because you actually take the chances of actually making predictions as we go. So we're going to have another big change coming, next June, right?

Carl:  No, July I was saying.

Jay:  July?

Carl:  Or the whole fall ‑ next fall I would say, starting in July.

Jay:  Yeah.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And then going all the way up through to November, right?

Carl:  Ah‑

Jay:  Of 2010.

Carl:  Then I would say yes, that's right. Yeah. I mean, I don't think there will be any real pulsing for us until October 28, 2011. I think things will just be shifting and shifting... and so...

Jay:  Confusion.

Carl:  I don't think there will be any time period where we can say, ``Oh, I don't think much will happen in that time period.'' I think that...

Jay:  Everything will be happening.

Carl:  Yeah, I think so.

Jay:  [laughs] That's very diplomatic, by the way.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  Yeah, I agree with you. I have a numerologist friend who does numerology for big corporations and people, and she told me that, you know, she hasn't had... there are no good readings until late 2011. In other words, yeah, very interesting. She had no good readings.

Carl:  Yeah? The whole thing?

Jay:  Everybody that she does, it's just not good. And she tells everybody to hide and that, you know, all of the sudden it gets better, she says, you know, around that time. So pretty interesting.

Carl:  OK, good. Yeah.

Jay:  Yeah.

Carl:  Makes sense to me.

Jay:  And so how did... so I really don't have much time here, maybe a minute or two ‑ tell me anything that you want to say, and also tell everyone how they could go to your website and get what your books are, and all that.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  So this is quick shop[?]

Carl:  Oh, OK. Yes. And well, my website then is, calleman.com, and I have a series of articles there that I've been updating for the past couple of months. And I'm preparing now a new article on the coming 6th night. I also want to mention that I'm coming out with a new book, only two weeks from now, it will be released. It's called, ``The Purposeful Universe.'' How quantum theory and Mayan cosmology explain the origin and evolution of life.

And it's different in content to what we've been talking about here, because it deals with a new theory of biological evolution. And so it's not about the future, but it's ‑ at the same time, it's really like a presentation of a Universe, where quantum shifts emanating from a big cross, which is the tree of life in ancient mythology.

It's a quantum shift in polarities from... emanating from this, is bringing about all the kind of evolution that we're seeing. Jay and I here, we've been talking about the effects in the immediate future, and so forth.

But this book deals with the whole history of the Universe going back to the big bang, which really wasn't... it certainly was an explosion, but the primary event of the big bang was the birth of this huge three‑dimensional cross that the ancient talks about as the tree of life.

And so, I'm very excited and very happy about this book, because it really brings together many, many different disciplines that have been previously looked upon as being separate.

I should also say that, we have a website called ``The Mayan Calendar Portal,'' which brings together a number of websites or people in different parts of the world, that adhere to this view that it's not just one line that is coming to an end here.

But that there are nine different cosmic forces that are now going to be manifesting and they're speeding up according to a certain pattern.

And people have different takes on it, of course, but we do have this common framework that we are discussing from.

The Nine Gates Part Three

With Carl Johan Calleman

Jay:  But anyway, getting back to this very fascinating idea of this kind of tapestry of time that you are talking about, I want to get to this ‑ that around November 8th of coming up here, is the 6th night, according to your calculations which I guess means... what? There are three more nights after this?

Carl:  No. It wouldn't mean that. There are nine levels that are going to come to a conclusion at the same time. And each of these levels are composed of seven days and six nights.

Jay:  Ah.

Carl:  ... but they are... they get increasingly shorter, meaning that, the shift will become more frequent on the 9th level that hasn't yet started. So we... at the same... we're coming to the last night on the eight sublevels ‑ the galactic underworld. But then, there's another underworld, another cosmic force, if you will, that hasn't yet been activated. And that will be activated in the years ahead. And it's the interaction of those that will determine this whole transformation of a new world. The way I look upon it, into a new world. Transformation into a new world.

So the 6th night is the last night of the galactic underworld, and the 9th underworld, the universal underworld, which cuts off the whole process, hasn't yet been activated. And that also includes nights and days and so forth.

Jay:  Each getting compressing and getting tighter and closing.

Carl:  Exactly, yes.

Jay:  And so when does this 9th...the 9th part of the progression, when does that start?

Carl:  Well, there are two ‑ it starts March 8, 2011, but there is also like a preceding cycle, you might say, which will start July 17, 18, 2010.

Jay:  What do you see happening there?

Carl:  I see ‑ that's a really very, what you say, revolutionary cycle, you might say.

Jay:  Really?

Carl:  If I make the parallels... there are two parallels that are very clear as I would say. One parallel, time‑wise, is the period 1498 to 1617. In other words the renaissance that brought in the feudal society, and created the world of Capitalists and Protestants, and Science and so forth. The second one is the one that many of us remember. That's the time period, 1986 to 1992, which was the time when we saw all the downfall of all these non‑democratic or the whole thing of Eastern Europe, and that transformation.

Jay:  The velvet revolutions.

Carl:  Right. All the revolutions that brought the fall of the Berlin wall, and the downfall of the Soviet empire. But this time it will be coming again, but it will be much more condensed. Because the shift will be happening on a higher frequency on this level. And so it will be condensed to only the fall, basically, of 2010.

Jay:  I get you, yeah.

Carl:  So... so...

Jay:  Very interesting. Are you familiar with my work on The Topology of Time? About how time corkscrews as it begins to tighten and it compresses into a vortex which begins almost folding in on itself. That's why I'm really interested in your work, because it almost sounds like you discovered this... yeah exactly ‑ through this the Mayans.

Carl:  Yeah, it's been...

Jay:  So everything is going to get going quicker and faster and our reaction times are going to be shortened.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  So we're in a world of extreme danger too, right?

Carl:  I would say so. Danger ‑ one thing I think is that, our old way of, when we were young ‑ I guess you maybe my age or something like that ‑ we were... we could plan 10 years ahead, maybe. And it wasn't that... I mean it may not have turned out that way, but I think it wasn't that stupid too, to make a plan for 10 years. But we will not be able to do those kinds of things anymore. We can't approach reality just rationally trying to plan, and accumulate, and set a life‑line if you're young ‑ of 20 or 40 years, or something like that ‑ we will have to rely on really being in the flow.

Really tuning in to the cosmic source. Really intuitively base our decisions, not on sort of rational logic, but just being in the present and going with the flow.

And that's the safest we can find I believe. That's the new... we will have to operate in that way. And if we are not able to do so, it will maybe... quite dangerous, yeah.

Jay:  Yeah. I think I actually... the analogy is sort of like surfing. A good surfer is not necessarily a good athlete, although it certainly helps. What makes a surfer really good is that they have this innate ability to be able to read the wave, and to go wherever the wave is going.

Carl:  Ah‑

Jay:  And I think that's really the key to the future here, is we're going to have to just... I have a lot of people ‑ young people talk to me and they asked me what they should do in their life. I'm going to have to take a break here.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  And I really don't know what to say to them anymore.

Carl:  [laughs]

Jay:  Learn how to grow food, I guess

The Nine Gates Part Two

With

Carl Johan Calleman

Jay:   Are you familiar with the work of Cliff High?

Carl:  No, I'm not, I'm not.

Jay:  Well, he's a guy who is a computer programmer out of Seattle, and what he did was, he attributes... he has webbots that go all over the Internet and collect all the words that are being spoken, in all the languages and then he adds values ‑ numerical values to the emotional content of the words. Then he waits a little while, and does it again. And through this, he's been able to tap into the collective unconscious.

Carl:  Yes.

Jay:  And he's been predicting things that have actually come true, like the economic crisis. And he has projections going forward into ‑ around the timeframe that you're talking about.

Carl:  ‑huh.

Jay:  In which, he says there's going to be ‑ he can hardly describe it. Like worldwide revolution and actually people are going to go back to a rural type of life, he says. He says I know it sounds crazy because it's so close. Yet, if you look out at the tapestry of the world, you can feel that there is something truly weird going on. And what it is, we're not sure. We're bringing up Cliff High, is because, he came out with an alert this week.

He apparently had run the program, and he was getting a lot of emotional language built around the last week of October, and the first week of November.

And then I went to your site, and I saw that you were predicting something around that same time period, are you not?

Carl:  Yes absolutely.

Jay:  And what are you predicting?

Carl:  Well, these nine levels, which are like nine wave movements of cosmic forces... then they are subdivided into 13 sections, or you might say they all encompass 12 quantum shifts between what I refer to as days and nights, which are periods that are parallel to the Genesis description of creation as being seven days and six nights. And so November 8, at this particular... this particular year will start what then will become the 6th night of the eighth of the nine levels of evolution.

Now, this 6th night, what I have predicted ‑ I made a YouTube thing on this a couple of months ago, is an intensified economic downturn, but also more specifically, I think it's something that will hit the American dollar and its role as the world reserve currency, so to speak.

Jay:  And that's exactly what Cliff High said, by the way.

Carl:  Oh I see, yeah. I'm...

Jay:  He said sometime...

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  He said sometime at the week, the last of October, early first week of early November, the dollar was going to completely collapse.

Carl:  Yeah. Well, it's amazing that [laughs]; it's in my YouTube thing I made several months ago.

Jay:  Good.

Carl:  So, yeah. So there may very well be some kind of a concurrence here. And I think that what you're relating here, his approach sounds very, very interesting. I mean it's...what that reflects is, what people have some kind of subconscious sense of what is going on, on a higher level.

Jay:  Yes.

Carl:  And what the Mayan Calendar describes are the shifts on the cosmic scale that are bringing these various changes about that ultimately caused them. And then, I think, in the time we're living, people are increasingly tuned in to these cosmic shifts. And so they are sensing it on some level, and that's probably what he's speaking of.

Jay:  I absolutely believe you're right, actually. That's exactly how I would have described it.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  Very interesting, you have the God of Fire in time, goes from 3‑1‑1‑5 ‑ the beginning of the Mayan Calendar according, I guess to you, is not 3‑1‑1‑4, it's 3‑1‑1‑5. Is that right?

Carl:  Yes.

Jay:  And the Yuga system, according to the Purana texts, I believe it's 3‑1‑0‑2.

Carl:  Yes, I think so.

Jay:  Is the date that they picked, yeah.

Carl:  Yeah.

Jay:  Now the Hindu Yuga system says that the Kali Yuga ends in twenty‑four, forty‑two, which does not match what you're seeing. And I wonder if you have, if you've thought about this or anything that you could explain the discrepancy between such a close beginning date, but such a far away end date.

Carl:  Yeah. I think my first response would be that the Mayan system is far more, as Calenderical system, is far more advanced than the Hindu system, or any Asian system, or any other system on the planet. I have heard different, end dates of the Kali Yuga system from India. Not only the particular one you mentioned. But I would say that my feeling is that, the Mayan Calendar, it's completely exact, or at least with the kind of correction that I made of like 420 days.

The Nine Gates

Part One

With Carl Johan Calleman

Jay Weidner:  My name is Jay Weidner. I want to remind everyone that my new film, Infinity ‑ The Ultimate Trip, is out. And if you want to find out how to view it, you go to www.sacredmysteries.com, and click there. Also you can check out our two films on 2012 called 2012:The Odyssey and its sequel Timewave 2013 by going to www.sacredmysteries.com.

I co-wrote a book, actually two books, the second book was just an extension of the first. The focus was on this strange cross in the south of France. Hendaye,

And this 400-year-old cross is saying that there is going to be this huge transformation coming. And when we deciphered the cross, we realized that it was saying that a kind of a 20‑year portal, from somewhere around 1992, to somewhere around 2012 would open and then there would be this transformation.

And all of my research was being done in the 90s, and I wasn't really paying attention to what other people were doing because my co‑writer and I were so involved in this research.

After the research was finished I sat back to see if anything strange was going to happen. And the world has been nothing but strange ever since.

And one of the guys that I've been watching for a long time, who has an unusual take, is Carl Johan Calleman.

Carl Johan Calleman:  Thank you very much.

Jay:   Why you're in disagreement with the December twenty firsters?

Carl:   I think when I started to doing serious work on the Mayan Calendar about 20 years ago, and most people would emphasize just what they call the long count ‑ 5125‑year cycle, or period that would end December 21, 2012. And, whereas I took another take basically, I would always be looking for verification, in terms of human history, or of cosmic events.

And so I noticed that ‑ well, I certainly was not the first person to notice that, the beginning of this 5125‑year cycle, coincided with real quantum shift in human history, when the first higher civilization emerged in Sumer, in Egypt, and a couple of other places.

But I also noticed that, you know, there were other much longer and some also shorter time periods. And that would coincide with other significant quantum shift in the cosmic history, going back all the way to the big bang.

And as I could find these quantum shifts, and I knew that the pyramids would symbolize that there were something significant about nine levels of evolution. I mapped out a model, where nine levels would all come to an end at a particular date.

And it's only recently that it has surfaced ‑ this so‑called Tortuguero Monument ‑ that now clearly states, basically, that this end date, is not just one cycle, is not just one line, time line that comes to an end at that particular date, but it's actually nine. In other words, nine cosmic forces are going to manifest at the particular time.

And so I very strongly feel that the, you might say, the discovery a few years ago about this single inscription from ancient times that describes the end date of the Calendar. That this talks about nine levels, or at least nine cosmic forces that are going to be fully manifested.

And so in this sense, I feel the archeological evidence in retrospect, has very much verified exactly what I was saying 20 years ago.

Now, the end date, I disagree with a lot of people. Not everyone, but certainly a lot of people that would place this at December 21, 2012. I place the end date, or the manifestation of these nine cosmic forces, I place it at October 28, 2011.

And it would be a very technical thing to talk about why that would be. But, as you were saying in your introduction, I appreciate you giving me credit for that, the fact that I have laid out a series of shifts leading up to this date, means that I'm, you know, I'm able to make prediction and which, you know, I put my research on the line, so to speak.

And in many cases, certainly I think I've been... history has verified what I have predicted. There are also predictions that are made that